Attaching pattern to wood... And what kind of wood to use?

[Shadow Wizard]

So, I have seen several different methods of attaching your pattern to the wood.  So far I am using the painters tape and glue method..  I attach painters tape to the wood, and glue the pattern using white glue to the painters tape.  But I find that pulls some of the wood up, at least on the wood I am using.  I really would like to learn some additional methods.

Now, as far as wood.  So far I an kinda in "practice mode" as I just started using this thing (first project came out really nice I think) so I have been using 1/4" thick flooring underlay (See picture) as its nice and thin (the kind of work I wanna get into) and very cheap.  But can't help but think there are better options out there.  But when I went to my local big box hardware store, I didn't know what to ask for, so the guy kinda looked at me like I was from mars when I tried to explain what I wanted.  Is there a better "practice" wood?  And what should I start to get when I want to start making some really nice stuff?

[Scrappile]

The only time I use painter's tape is if I am stack cutting... and even then I usually only tape around the edges to hold the stacked pieces together... I use spray adhesives like 3M 77.  I spray the back of the pattern and attach it directly to the wood... To remove after cutting, I wipe Mineral spirits over the pattern and them lift the pattern off. Use some more mineral spirits to wipe off any glue residue..  I  scroll Baltic Birch plywood except if I am using solid wood, not plywood.. You cannot get Baltic Birch plywood at most big box stores like Home Depot or Lowes... I get mine at the local Windsor Plywood or an unfinished furniture store amd lots of lumberyards carry it.  It is getting hard to find Baltic Birch, you can order it off the interne from places like Ocooch Hardwoods, Cherokee woods and lots of  places that carry scroll  saw patterns, and supplies..

[crupiea]

There are a number of methods to attach the patern but here is what i do and have been doing for many years, 

I start with spray glu3, currently I have 3m super 77 which i got at walmart.  The loktite stuff works about the same. 

I lightly spray the back of the pattern, lightly spray being the key word.  

Then I wait 3-4 minutes.  It will be barely tacky, then put it on the wood.  If you get the barely tacky part right it will stay in place to cut and come right off when done.  Too tacky and it will stick and be very hard to remove causing excessive foul language. 

The tackiness should be way less than that of a post it note, way less.  Hard to describe but the 3-4 minute thing seems to work, just play with it. 

As far as wood goes baltic birch is the best,  the reason is that regular plywood has filler that is basically just sawdust or the like.  When you make fine cuts it will natually fall apart, chip, blow out and drive you nuts. 

Baltic birch doesnt have sawdust fillers but actual thin sheets glues together so natrurally it stays together when cut.   This also makes it more expensive too.

Big box stores dont really sell it. I get mine in 5 x 5 sheets from a local wood specialty place that caters to custom cabinet makers and yacht builders. There, its probably the cheapest stuff they have plus they have all the thicknesses.  Look for something like this if you live in a bigger city.   Not regular birch, it has to be baltic birch.  Just look at the edge of it and you can tell if its filler or plys.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, crupiea said:

There are a number of methods to attach the patern but here is what i do and have been doing for many years, 

I start with spray glu3, currently I have 3m super 77 which i got at walmart.  The loktite stuff works about the same. 

I lightly spray the back of the pattern, lightly spray being the key word.  

Then I wait 3-4 minutes.  It will be barely tacky, then put it on the wood.  If you get the barely tacky part right it will stay in place to cut and come right off when done.  Too tacky and it will stick and be very hard to remove causing excessive foul language. 

The tackiness should be way less than that of a post it note, way less.  Hard to describe but the 3-4 minute thing seems to work, just play with it. 

As far as wood goes baltic birch is the best,  the reason is that regular plywood has filler that is basically just sawdust or the like.  When you make fine cuts it will natually fall apart, chip, blow out and drive you nuts. 

Baltic birch doesnt have sawdust fillers but actual thin sheets glues together so natrurally it stays together when cut.   This also makes it more expensive too.

Big box stores dont really sell it. I get mine in 5 x 5 sheets from a local wood specialty place that caters to custom cabinet makers and yacht builders. There, its probably the cheapest stuff they have plus they have all the thicknesses.  Look for something like this if you live in a bigger city.   Not regular birch, it has to be baltic birch.  Just look at the edge of it and you can tell if its filler or plys.

I learned to use your method Crupeia. I get great results by letting the adhesive "cure" until it is barely tacky. I also use the peel n stick shipping labels with good success. I think the heat gun is the best method for pattern removal. I buy BB ply from Cherokee Wood Products. Great quality. 

[Millwab]

What you’re using for "practice" is fine, but when you move into things to keep the Baltic birch is the gold standard to use.  If you want to avoid solvents to remove glue you can cover your wood with clear shelf liner (eg Contact brand or similar) instead of painter's tape. Spray the adhesive on the pattern and fix to the wood. The contact paper comes off without leaving a residue and doesn’t lift the wood fibers. If you don’t have a local source for Baltic birch you can buy it online from a number of places (Woodcraft, Rockler, and Cherry Tree come to mind and I’m sure there are others). Although I haven’t tried it myself I’ve heard that Purebond plywood is also good for scrolling. 

[TAIrving]

Welcome to the Village and to the hobby/obsession.  You have come to the right place for expert advice and opinions.

I have been scrolling for a little over a year now and am completely hooked and am still learning, far from expert; however I can advise:

You are already past the point where you can get meaningful advice from the big box people.  

As for your question about how to attach patterns to wood, you have touched on a hot topic here at the Village and you already have several responses.  This has been a hot topic of discussion here over the last year or so.  Search the forum on this topic.  You will find both opinions and expert advice.  

Regarding wood:  I practiced and learned using cedar fence pickets from the big box store - good for practice, not good for quality.  Wood is another topic with lots of discussion.  The question is, what do you want to do with it?  Plywood has its uses, and the options are baltic birch plywood or hardwood surfaced plywood.  For better and more expensive projects you can use solid wood, choose your variety and thickness.  My personal favorites are Cherry, Mahogany and Black Walnut.  I have also experimented with Monkeypod, Paduak, Hard Maple, Red Oak, Ash, etc, and am having fun trying them.  Whatever wood you choose, pay attention to the thickness recommended by the pattern maker.

Experiment, ask questions and enjoy the hobby!

 

 

[BadBob]

I have tried everything but labels to attached patterns. If I want to avoid damaging the wood when removing the patterns, I use spray adhesive (3M77 preferred) to attach the patterns directly and use mineral spirits to remove them. It works like a charm. The only downside is having to deal with the solvent.

 

[William Eicehelberger]

I attach directly to the wood. I put a light coat of spray glue to the wood. Let it to become tacky about (2 minutes). I use saw dusts to cover the areas that the pattern doesn't coverer to get rid of the tackiness , To remove the pattern from the wood I use a rag dampened with mineral spirits rubbed across the pattern and the pattern almost falls off. I then wipe the wood with the  dampened rag to rewove  any excessive glue on the board. Let the board dry and you can't tell it was ever had glue or  mineral spirits on it .If I glue the  pattern and place it on the board I still have to remove spirits  and if I glue over the painters tape I then have to remove the tape ( time consuming) A gallon of mineral spirits will last for about 1 1/2 to 2 years. Quick easy and Cheep to use.

IKE

 

[savethebeer]

Hello Rob from Bob, 

You don't say where you are from. In Ireland we have 1 place that I use all the time for my Baltic Birch Ply, although its called Russian Birch Ply here. 

I use Duct tape to cover my wood and stick the pattern to that. I find that if I lift the tape and paper off the wood the same day I stuck it on then I am left with sticky patches of residue on the wood, even though I would have given the pattern 2 or more minutes to get tacky. If I take several days to do a piece then the tape lifts off the wood without leaving any sticky patches. 

Because Of limited wood suppliers in Ireland I have used other types of wood as well as BBP. This includes MDF, Chipboard, floorboards, fence pieces, driftwood, furniture panels,  to name a few. You can get decent results on a variety of woods if you use the correct type of blade for that wood, but that requires practice to find that correct blade. You need to vary your blade types with each type of wood just to see for yourself which blade gives the best result rather than reading a list off a website, then write down the result of which blade gave the best result of particular wood.

If you only had a limited supply of wood then stick the pattern onto the wood and do some test cuts off the pattern. That way when you discover the best one you can just switch to cutting the actual pattern.

regards

Bob 

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, William Eicehelberger said:

I attach directly to the wood. I put a light coat of spray glue to the wood. Let it to become tacky about (2 minutes). I use saw dusts to cover the areas that the pattern doesn't coverer to get rid of the tackiness , To remove the pattern from the wood I use a rag dampened with mineral spirits rubbed across the pattern and the pattern almost falls off. I then wipe the wood with the  dampened rag to rewove  any excessive glue on the board. Let the board dry and you can't tell it was ever had glue or  mineral spirits on it .If I glue the  pattern and place it on the board I still have to remove spirits  and if I glue over the painters tape I then have to remove the tape ( time consuming) A gallon of mineral spirits will last for about 1 1/2 to 2 years. Quick easy and Cheep to use.

IKE

 

Speak for yourself Ike. We aren't allowed to own it here.

 

[dgman]

6 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

Speak for yourself Ike. We aren't allowed to own it here.

 

You can own as much as you like! You just can buy it in your county. You can order it from Amazon and it will be delivered right to your door!

[OCtoolguy]

19 hours ago, dgman said:

You can own as much as you like! You just can buy it in your county. You can order it from Amazon and it will be delivered right to your door!

@dgmanNot sure about that. Has something changed that I'm not aware of? I tried to buy it on Amazon but they wouldn't ship to my address. Something weird here. I just checked Lowe's and they are in the same area as my H/D store. They sell mineral spirits under the brand name Jasco. Are all mineral spirits the same?

Edited October 19, 2021 by OCtoolguy

[JAC1961]

I use clear shelf liner first to the wood and then super 77 to adhere the pattern to the shelf liner. I don't wait for the spray adhesive to dry any, I slap it on while still wet. I've found the cheaper liner works best. I recently ordered a box of 12 rolls from one of the dollar stores (sorry, don't remember which) for $17, delivered to their nearest store and picked up their. This new batch leaves just the slightest bit of stickiness on the wood that's easily removed with mineral spirits.

Edit: I got the shelf liner at Dollar Tree and it was a dollar a roll for 16 rolls, shipped to the local store for free.

Edited October 23, 2021 by JAC1961
Additional info

[Shadow Wizard]

So, I am just about to go and buy my first bit of, what I am guessing will be GOOD wood to use.  I am thinking of "1/4-inch x 6-inch x 4 Feet Red Oak Hardwood Hobby Board S4S" linked here: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/alexandria-moulding-1-4-inch-x-6-inch-x-4-feet-red-oak-hardwood-hobby-board-s4s/1000408500

Or perhaps the same think in poplar.

Question the first:  Any reason NOT to use that stuff?

Question the second: red oak, or poplar?  Is there really any difference when it comes to doing scroll saw work other then appearance?

Question the third: if for some reason that wood is NOT recommended, can you suggest what I may be able to get without needing to order?  I am located in Canada and hoping to get started on 'keep' pieces tomorrow, so I need something that would be in stock.  I looked & Baltic Birch is not available at my local stores.

[BadBob]

20 hours ago, JAC1961 said:

This new batch leaves just the slightest bit of stickiness on the wood that's easily removed with mineral spirits.

I had the same issue with some brand-name not so cheap shelf liner.

So why not adhere the pattern directly to the wood if you have to clean it up anyway?

[BadBob]

6 hours ago, Shadow Wizard said:

Question the second: red oak, or poplar?  Is there really any difference when it comes to doing scroll saw work other then appearance?

Oak looks nice but breaks easily. Your choice of wood depends on what you are going to make.

[JAC1961]

57 minutes ago, BadBob said:

I had the same issue with some brand-name not so cheap shelf liner.

So why not adhere the pattern directly to the wood if you have to clean it up anyway?

Can't really argue with that logic. Just seems to be less adhesive/clean up when I use the shelf liner.

[TAIrving]

Like BadBob said, Oak breaks easily.  And 1/4" wood is nice for scrolling, but more prone to breaking.  

If you are still practicing and learning the hobby, I suspect you will be happier with Poplar than with Oak.  But Oak does look nice and might be the right wood for a specific project.  

[Shadow Wizard]

2 hours ago, BadBob said:

Oak looks nice but breaks easily. Your choice of wood depends on what you are going to make.

 

37 minutes ago, Algae said:

Like BadBob said, Oak breaks easily.  And 1/4" wood is nice for scrolling, but more prone to breaking.  

If you are still practicing and learning the hobby, I suspect you will be happier with Poplar than with Oak.  But Oak does look nice and might be the right wood for a specific project.  

Thanks guys.  I would have thought it was the other way around.  I will get some oak just to try and see how it is, but for my first projects I will stick to poplar.  The stuff I am doing so far doesn't have a  lot of small pieces that can break off on most of them.  Once I create my first few pieces on nice wood I will post some photos.

[BadBob]

I have cut some very nice fretwork pieces from oak. You need to be careful and understand it might break if your blade catches. I have had breaks that I glued back together and kept ongoing.

[Mikes shed]

I use a glue stick that is used for crafts. I have been using this for at least 5years now it is cheap and not messy.

This is how I use it; apply it directly to the paper then place the pattern onto the wood or if you want to and I do sometimes use this method and that is to apply the glue directly onto the wood and then place the pattern onto the wood. the trouble with the second method is that you end up with a sticky glue on the excess wood. Using this glue has alot of advantages it helps hold the edge of the cut item especially if you are doing very intricrit work as I do and when you have finished you just peel the pattern off. If it doesnt come off easily I use a razor blade to scrape it off this leaves a clean surface ready to seal but to make sure that it is 100% clean I use isophyi alchol and carefully wipe over the finished item this is non toxic and dries instantly.

I hope that this helps you 

Mike

[Trapper John]

I always used spray-on glue for pattern attachment but never was satisfied by the process, simple though it might be.

I took a gamble and tried a Xyron Creative Station as an alternative.  The pattern is placed into a printer-like feed tray.   A hand crank moves the pattern into the machine where it passes through a set of rollers and is affixed to a removable adhesive backing. This backing is very easy to remove manually.

The entire process takes a few seconds.  The cost of the machine was $58.  Spendy for a "toy"? Yes indeed.  But hey, I'm 73.  I get to play a little, too!

 

[CharleyL]

That photo of the wood that you are presently using tells me that you need a new and sharper high tooth count blade on your table saw, and a zero clearance insert to minimize the opening around the blade to just wide enough for the blade to come through. Both will stop the chipping of the edges of the wood blanks that you are cutting to size. If using a hand held circular saw, there are ways to make a zero clearance insert for it too. Ask, and I'll provide the info.

 

Charley

[Gotrocks]

I have been using tape/spray adhesive and found it to be much better than gluing pattern to wood.

NOW  I have started using "full sheet clear label" , I use my Epson printer and am able to resize and print multiple small patterns on one sheet.

Try it you might like it.