Taking photos

[JAC1961]

If this is better suited in another section, admin please move.

I'm posting some of my scroll work online for sale and could use better pics. I believe my main problem is lighting. We live in the woods so getting the natural, indirect light most recommend is difficult. Sometimes I do ok outside, but that's not going to be a good option this winter.

My thought is to get either one of the pop up, self contained light boxes that are lighting and back drop all in one or go full studio type lights and a roll up background. My preference is the smaller, cheaper light box, but am wondering if anyone has actual experience using one. Also if anyone can recommend specific ones I'd greatly appreciate it.

[kmmcrafts]

All of my pictures are done in a light box that I have set up in the loft of my shop. I originally bought a medium sized fold up deal with tripod lights.. was made of cloth material and had a spring wire frame. The kit came with several colored backdrops that Velcro in place. Was an "okay" set up.. I didn't like the cloth because it'd get wrinkles in it and make shadows etc. 

Fast forward a few years. I got real high end set up and would never go back to a high price purchased item again..  So what I have now is simply a cardboard box that was free at the local Michaels store. I cut out windows in the sides of the box and taped in white tissue paper ( stuff people use to cover / wrap a gift in a gift bag ).. For the backdrop I bought a poster board and taped it to the back top side of the box and let it drape down naturally. I then used the lights from the purchased kit I had.. Not all poster board is created equal but all of them will work. I found I like the little more pricey one that is made more of plastic or? because you can wipe it down if it gets a dirt smudges on it.. Any spec of dust / dirt on a white and taking high resolution photos shows up bad so being in my loft sometimes gets some dust etc. Wiping it on a white paper can smear mark it.. The cheaper poster board is harder to clean than the better one is my point.. I made this as a temporary photo box about 8 years ago.. my intention was to build a wood framed one that's larger and more durable.. But as you can see I never did that.. maybe never will because a free box is way cheaper than even scrap wood to build one, LOL.. I do want a larger one for the larger items ( signs ) that I'll be doing on my CNC.. But this smaller one works perfect for most my scrolled stuff. 

[FrankEV]

1 hour ago, JAC1961 said:

.... I believe my main problem is lighting...

You did not mention what kind of camera you ar using.  Phone camera are good but can be difficult to get well framed pics.  A decent digital camera will do better and give you more latitude with lighting situations.   

A simple hanging backdrop in a neutral color {I use light grey}, a set of LED photo lights from Amazon {under $30}, and tripod for the camera is all that is needed.  I also use a ring light to supplement the photo lights to knock down shadows, but not always needed. 

My biggest problem with the light boxes they sell is the inability to hang flat work on the back wall.  I want my pics to be framed square and to do so they must be hung.

[kmmcrafts]

I didn't mention anything about camera, But since you are just wanting to put photos online I wouldn't suggest anything better than a phone or cheap digital camera.. Especially trying to upload photos online many sites will automatically lessen the photo quality OR require you to downsize the photo anyway.. I spent over a grand on a DSLR camera and lenses etc.. My cheap iPhone 6S does better quality for "online" use than that nice camera does.. Between the cell phone and the cheap Sony Cybershot 7.2 Mega Pixel from 2005 era camera I have I get best results from my phone.. but that said I usually use the old Sony because it's easier for me to do them uploaded from my computer than my phone.. for me anyway..  LOL 

Edit to add:  Not sure what you're looking for in photo quality etc.. but the selling venues I sell on want "white" backgrounds without a bunch of props etc.. In fact Amazon will not upload photos unless they are a certain size and a complete white background.. NO watermarks etc.. Etsy only suggest white background and no to little props.. 

Pretty hard to please Amazons photo requirements with a natural photo without editing the photo to get the pure white that they want.. SO I use a online program fotofuse.com to get the results I need. You might try editing your current photos.. you may not even need to build a lightbox and put a bunch of effort into photos.. The program is very easy to use so long as you start with a somewhat white background..  

Edited November 12, 2021 by kmmcrafts

[BadBob]

I have both a lightbox and a backdrop.

What you need depends on what you are photographing. My lightbox is barely large enough to shoot a 12-inch item, and sometimes 12 inches will not fit so it is really 8-10 inches. Buy the big lightbox. You will not regret it, but if you buy the little one, you will regret it when something will not fit the first time.

Neewer 36x36 inch/90x90 cm Photo Studio Shooting Tent will work for small things.

You can cobble something together that will work from poster board and boxes, but what will you do with it after you are done shooting. The lightbox will collapse into a small package the is easy to store.

Lighting is the name of the game in photography. If you haven't got the lights right, you are not going to get good results. Please don't waste your money on the little tabletop lights they sell on Amazon. I used LED Floodlights in clamp-on lamps for a while. It worked, but they were a pain to set up and adjust. I still use the floodlight bulbs, but now I use light stands and white umbrellas to diffuse the light. They are easy to adjust, and I can use them anywhere. Light stands are cheap. The LED flood light cost more than the stands. More light is better. Natural light can work, but you can't control it.

I'm going to ne using this today:

Aluminum LightPhotography Tripod Stand with Case - Pack of 2

Emart Light Bulb Stand, E26 / E27 AC Socket Lamp Holder with Umbrella Holder

Neewer 2 Pack 33"/84cm White Translucent Soft Umbrella for Photo and Video Studio Shooting

GE Lighting LED Bright Stik Light Bulb, 15-Watt They don't sell the flood lights I have anymore but these will probably work fine and if they don't you can use them in your shop or home. Just make sure you get daylight LEDs 5000K-6500K and as many lumens as you can.

If I were to do it today, I would skip the tent and go with a white fabric backdrop, light stands, and white umbrellas.

One tough thing for me to learn was that white backgrounds are not white. They are pale gray. Paper is the same, but it gets graded according yo how white the paper is. The whiter the paper the more it costs.

 

 

[JAC1961]

Thanks very much for the replies, lots of good info.  I'm still trying to decide.  BTW, I do have a DSLR, but still use my phone at times to get things done quickly.

[crupiea]

I just use poster board as a back ground and take the pics with a dslr in auto mode.  

Then I adjust the lighting afterwards.  I use paint.net for that. 

I dont like getting the shine from the piece like with direct lighting or flash, drives me nuts.  Might try the cardboard light box idea Kmm has as they are pro's at it.

[Sycamore67]

I take all of mine with a cell phone.  I recently got the Samsung S21 Ultra and the camera takes amazing pictures.  However, the lighting and background are very important as pointed out by several others.

I use a royal blue cloth like a bed sheet and have mounted adjustable cheap lights on the ceiling of my shop.  I sometimes change between day light and soft white light led bulbs.

[CharleyL]

I'm a professional photographer, and now with a complete digital photo/video studio. I have been taking photos and videos for many years (since high school, and I'm 79 now). It's already been said that lighting is what's most important, and I fully agree. In fact, it's more important to have good lighting than a good camera. For scroll saw projects, you need to have soft lighting with minimum or no glare, and in most cases, minimum to no shadows.

For small scroll saw sized work pieces, I use a 24" cube folding light box (shooting tent) and LED light panels lighting the top and both sides of the box. The diffusion fabric of the light box diffuses and spreads the light to eliminate shadows and glare on small projects that I place inside to photograph. The front side of this box is the access panel, and is held closed with Velcro Dots at the top corners. It has a hole in the center for the camera lens. It comes with several colors of back/floor covers, also Velcro attached so it's easy to pick a background/floor color that looks good with your project. With good lighting and one of these folding light boxes, you can set up and take scroll saw project photos almost anywhere, even on the top of your table saw or workbench. The light diffusion of this fabric reduces the need for high quality lighting so most any 3 bright light sources that you can place around and above the light box will do. The LED panels that I use work great, but the aluminum reflector with spring clamp attachment lights and 100 watt light bulbs from the big box stores will work too. Just keep them far enough away to light the full side of the box and also far enough away to keep the heat from the bulbs from damaging the light box. Move them farther away if too bright and closer if not bright enough, but be careful not to overheat the side of the light box from being too close. These light boxes have spring wire frames, so fold down to a 24" X 2" round pancake when not being used, like the kids toys, so storage is very easy.

If the cost of one of these light boxes is too much, you can build a wood frame from dowels and corner blocks that you can assemble without glue and pull apart to collapse for storage (think Tinker Toy style). Low priced (New - the cheapest you can find, actually works best) white/white bed sheet material works good for light diffusion fabric, so you can cut up a sheet to make the sides, top, and bottom of the light box from it. White Velcro Dots make it easy to assemble this temporarily and disassemble it for storage too. Small pieces of colored materials can be used to cover the back and floor of this light box to act as a backdrop and floor to display the work. Velcro Dots on the back wall of the box with the mating Velcro Dots on the backdrop fabric panels will make it easy to install and remove these backdrops. I

f you, or some family member can sew, have them sew this box to fit your wood frame. Leave the front side attached at the bottom and Velcro attached with Velcro Dots to the top to allow opening and closing this front side of the box. Cutting a hole in the center of the front allows for the camera lens, but I frequently shoot with the whole front of my purchased light box left open. The key is to keep it dark behind you, so only the light coming through the sides and top are lighting the inside of the box.

For large items that won't fit in one of these light boxes (like furniture), you will need a suitable backdrop, and larger diffusion of the lights. Photography umbrellas and lights designed for use with them, plus light stands and something to hold the backdrop is going to be needed. New, budget priced bed sheets make acceptable backdrops and light diffusers. The same reflector/spring clamp lights can be used. Clipping a sheet of white typing paper to the top and bottom of the reflector, so the paper forms a U shape will spread the light well and keep the paper far enough away from the bulb to keep it from burning. Since you can't adjust the light brightness, moving the light closer and farther away will work well to adjust the brightness.

If you can afford real photo lights, light stands, backdrops, etc. there are complete budget priced and up packages.   available from Amazon. If you have little to no experience in photography, one of these with included constant lights will probably be best for you. This one is more than enough, if just getting started and on a tight budget. 

amazon.com/Photography-Portrait-Umbrella-Continuous-LimoStudio/dp/B005FHZ2SI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=15OAK2X0721L0&keywords=portrait+lighting+kit+for+photography&qid=1637511738&qsid=142-0037546-4020453&sprefix=portrait+light%2Caps%2C184&sr=8-3&sres=B005FHZ2SI%2CB08DFMFQJ6%2CB0833X7CZJ%2CB07C27QB1G%2CB07JNDVKK8%2CB094HSCB8F%2CB08RDHC5JG%2CB085VXPW1Q%2CB089SYH1PY%2CB07G3423NQ%2CB019GTCNXC%2CB07FNMHPBJ%2CB018KE5XUO%2CB07L6B667Q%2CB08DG2DDKC%2CB07NBP6D98   

You get a lot for $65, but you need space to set it up. Small scroll saw items do better in just a light box with external lights..

With constant lighting, what you see is what you should get in the photo, so you can move the lights to minimize the shadows or adjust them to your liking. Adequate LED lights are still very expensive and not for tight budgets, yet. The spiral fluorescent lights are very good and not very expensive. The white umbrellas become the diffusion material to spread the light source and make it more even with softer edge shadows. You point the top of the white umbrella at your object being photographed and the light shines through it.  The black umbrellas with reflective inside require pointing the light toward the inside of the umbrella where it reflects, so the underside of the black umbrellas point to the object being photographed. 

I can provide more help if anyone needs it, but I think I have already provided more than most can handle for starters..

Charley

  

 

[JAC1961]

6 hours ago, CharleyL said:

but I think I have already provided more than most can handle for starters..

Charley

  

 

LOL, I'll say!  Thanks for all the help Charley.

What's your opinion of prelighted boxes like this one?  I was hoping to get away with something simple and "all in one" like this.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GIL6EU4/?coliid=I2Q8JA2K7X6EQJ&colid=1B3Z29M6Y4AM&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[meflick]

I will leave it to the experts like Charley and the others to give you the best information and advise. I did want to say, I do have a light box similar to the one you show from Amazon albeit smaller and it has worked fine for my purposes in general BUT I don’t take photos for selling purposes.

[kmmcrafts]

This is like the purchased one I had and worked well for me for several years.. But as dust and dirt go to it and just general wear it got to where it needed cleaned up.. Apparently it wasn't up to the quality for washing it as it was never the same after that.. ( may have been me.. I did the wash one other time when I first got married and now the wife wont let me do it..  ) and the cloth backdrops was easy to wrinkle.. I wasn't about to iron it every time I needed to use it. To do over I might have just used the poster board inside the tent as it worked great for defusing the light etc. My biggest issue was keeping the cloth clean and wrinkle free. Mine came with tripod and two tripod lights.. I have since pitched everything other than the lights and tripod and made my cardboard box one.. lol

https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Shooting-Diffusion-Backdrops-Photography/dp/B00GKG4JVE/ref=zg_bs_3444581_50?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=HB1NC61WG7QFYGK0E25Y

[BadBob]

I have been using a 24x24-inch photo tent for five years. It works for most things make, but it becomes difficult to use as I approach 10 inches wide. If I replace the tent, I will get a larger one. I have a backdrop, but I only get it out when I am shooting more oversized items.

The colored backdrops are pretty much useless. They mess up the colors. Having a blue backdrop is like having blue-tinted lights.

I don't use the front piece with the hole for the camera. It is almost always in the wrong place, and it is constantly in the way. I need to shoot photos from multiple angles, and I need at least 15 useable photos from each piece.

More light is better.

I don't use incandescent bulbs and never will. LEDs don't get hot enough to burn or melt anything, and they put out a lot of light. I have LEDs that output 1600 lumens and are only 15 watts.

[BadBob]

4 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

My biggest issue was keeping the cloth clean and wrinkle free.

I could never get the wrinkles ot of the back drops. Hanging them up on the wall helps keep from getting new wrinkles.

 

 

[CharleyL]

Steaming is the way to get rid of wrinkles. I don't iron. A hand held steamer with distilled water is what I use, whether it's 10" X 12" or 10' X 20'. 

Yes, colored backdrops and walls in close proximity to your object being photographed will cause color changes in your photo (color bleeding). Photoshop, Affinity, Paintshop, or a similar program will let you electronically cut out the desirable part of your image, shot with white surroundings, then added to the background of your choice, with no color bleed problems.

You bring up a photo of the desired background and then the clipped image of the object as a layer above the background, position and size it to suit, then combine the background and layer(s) into the completed photo. Think of a layer as a clear piece of plastic that you have attached your object image to. You can see it on the monitor with the background behind it, and you can move it around and make changes to it without moving or affecting the background. When satisfied, you can save them as a single image file. WYSIWIG. (What You See Is What You Get) with no color bleeding. 

Yes, LED is definitely the way to go for lights, if you can afford them. Most often I use 3 light panels with 480 LEDs in each, one on each side, and one above. 

You are supposed to move the object being photographed to shoot different views within a light box, but I agree about the front with the camera lens hole being a problem. I too, frequently leave the front door of the light box open when using it.

With a purchased light box that has the perimeter of each side made with a spring wire frame, it folds/twists to become a small flat package that fits into a nylon carry bag. If I was keeping mine in a wood shop, I would then keep this in a Zip Lock storage bag zipped up and air tight to keep it's contents clean and the whites truly white. I do this, even in my studio storage when keeping items that must remain clean from getting dirty or age yellowing. Props, garments, backdrops, etc. all get stored this way. 

For close-up macro shots, like the wedding rings in the flowers photo attached, I usually use a ring flash. It attaches to the end of my camera lens to give me a completely surrounding and shadow free light, as can be seen in the photo attached. Without a light tent, this is a good way to get even and shadow free light. Of course, it won't work for a cell phone, but just about any DSLR or Mirrorless camera can be used with the one that I have. It was made by Godox and sells through Amazon and the larger Camera Stores for about $70. Mine came with camera lens adapters to fit just about any camera. It screws onto the filter threads on the end of the camera lens. Then the light ring slides onto this adapter. The power unit is about the size of a speedlite and attaches to the flash hot shoe of the camera. A coiled cord connects them together, making it easy to install and remove the ring light. The photo is of my grand daughter's wedding rings, taken at her wedding a year ago.

Charley

Edited November 22, 2021 by CharleyL

[CharleyL]

Here is another photo, taken of a printed circuit board that is 3/8" wide and 1" long. At this magnification, the depth of field of the focus makes only the center part in focus, but you can see what is possible with ring lighting on the camera. Even light and no shadows. The orange things are not my fingers. They are the padded jaws of a Jorgenson Spring clamp that's holding the pc board. It's slightly out of focus, but a shot of what I am doing right now (still trying to get things just right but the lighting is good).

Charley

Edited November 22, 2021 by CharleyL

[BadBob]

16 hours ago, CharleyL said:

Yes, LED is definitely the way to go for lights, if you can afford them.

I'm using Cree LED Flood lights I got from home depot for about $9 each when I bought them. They are about $12 now.

 

[CharleyL]

7 hours ago, BadBob said:

I'm using Cree LED Flood lights I got from home depot for about $9 each when I bought them. They are about $12 now.

 

Not being a light intended for photography, I have no idea what the color rating is nor how even the light is across it's spread. Do you know? 5600 K to 6300 K would be the most desirable color. Do you have a light meter to measure the light level across the work surface?

 

Charley 

[BadBob]

20 hours ago, CharleyL said:

Not being a light intended for photography, I have no idea what the color rating is nor how even the light is across it's spread. Do you know? 5600 K to 6300 K would be the most desirable color. Do you have a light meter to measure the light level across the work surface?

 

Charley

 

5000k @ 1800 lumens
I don't have a light meter; I haven't needed one yet. I shoot all my product shots with the camera set to aperture priority, F18, with autofocus and stabilization turned on. I use a 2-second timer instead of a remote. I did a lot of experimenting, and these settings give me the results I want.

[CharleyL]

6 hours ago, BadBob said:

 

"5000k @ 1800 lumens
I don't have a light meter; I haven't needed one yet. I shoot all my product shots with the camera set to aperture priority, F18, with autofocus and stabilization turned on. I use a 2-second timer instead of a remote. I did a lot of experimenting, and these settings give me the results I want."

5000K is good. F18 tells me that the lights are sure bright enough, and then some. I usually try to shoot at F6-9 and adjust my lights to get that on my light meter at a point where the light is hitting the object being photographed. Most room lighting us almost always below F6, so none of it will have any effect on the photos taken. All of the light for the photo is then the result of the lights, which are controllable, and it's still easy to see your way around the room. You should be able to back your lights up several feet from the object and run a lower F-Stop number and get the same result without overheating the object and it's surroundings. Each time you double the distance between the light and object you will cut the light level 50%. It works the opposite way too. It's called the "Inverse square Law". Photographers do their magic when they follow this law of lighting. Many don't know the math, but understand the principle.   

My only remaining concern is that the light is spread evenly across the object with no center hot spot, typical of non photographic lights. A diffuser panel between the light and object would help eliminate this. A sheet of printer paper would work, if big enough and if it can be placed far enough in front of the light bulb so as not to catch fire, would work to spread the light. A piece of white bed sheet would work too, if it was new or nearly new white. If buying for this, the cheapest bedsheet you can find, will do a better job than the more expensive varieties.  Make a frame to keep it flat and add a stand of some design to position it in front of the light bulb. The light center spot should spread and make the light into an even, soft, and surrounding light. 

Charley

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by CharleyL

[BadBob]

15 hours ago, CharleyL said:

5000K is good. F18 tells me that the lights are sure bright enough, and then some. I usually try to shoot at F6-9 and adjust my lights to get that on my light meter at a point where the light is hitting the object being photographed. Most room lighting us almost always below F6, so none of it will have any effect on the photos taken. All of the light for the photo is then the result of the lights, which are controllable, and it's still easy to see your way around the room. You should be able to back your lights up several feet from the object and run a lower F-Stop number and get the same result without overheating the object and it's surroundings. Each time you double the distance between the light and object you will cut the light level 50%. It works the opposite way too. It's called the "Inverse square Law". Photographers do their magic when they follow this law of lighting. Many don't know the math, but understand the principle.   

My only remaining concern is that the light is spread evenly across the object with no center hot spot, typical of non photographic lights. A diffuser panel between the light and object would help eliminate this. A sheet of printer paper would work, if big enough and if it can be placed far enough in front of the light bulb so as not to catch fire, would work to spread the light. A piece of white bed sheet would work too, if it was new or nearly new white. If buying for this, the cheapest bedsheet you can find, will do a better job than the more expensive varieties.  Make a frame to keep it flat and add a stand of some design to position it in front of the light bulb. The light center spot should spread and make the light into an even, soft, and surrounding light. 

Charley

 

 

 

It's two "5000K @ 1800 lumens 16-watts plus three overhead lights 5000K 1100 lumens 12-watts. There is no heat issue. They are warm, not hot.

I use F18 because it gives me the depth of field I need from any angle. I'm not shooting flat surfaces. I did extensive testing to come up with these numbers. I never need to change the settings.

What would I change?

A larger tent would be a great help.

A boom light would give me more options. Now I shoot on the dining room table using the overhead lighting. If I need to move the lights, I have to slide the ten around.