Blade quality or setup trouble?

[rash_powder]

I have been cutting a boat load of Christmas ornaments the last few weeks and have found that some blades of the same size/model/brand work much better than others with the exact same setup; as best I can tell.  

What I mean is an Olson Mach Speed 3R will cut roughly half to 3/4 of an ornament, and when it gets replaced, the very next might only be good for 4".  I've found this with the Pegas #3 skip tooth reverse also, though I've only been through about 4 of them.  The first was bad, and the next couple good.  

Is this bad setup or blade quality?

[Denny Knappen]

Need a little more information.  Type of wood and how thick.  Stacking

 

I stack cut 2 each 1/4" hardwood using Pegas #1R MGT blades and one blade will cut intricate ornaments with no problem.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Denny Knappen

[kmmcrafts]

Since it's happening to two different blades and completely different brands I'll go out on a limb and say it's not the blade.. Saw set up might be the same etc. But is the blade tension slipping / flexing? during the stroke? Are you pushing straight into the blade or off to the side a bit? Heat kills these blades... a slight side pressure will create heat.. pushing too hard feeding the blade creates heat. I find it real easy to either push too hard or sometimes onto the side of the blade when cutting out the rounded outer profile of an ornament, patients is key when doing those long cuts. I used to have a lot of troubles with this until I found the Pegas MGT blades.. they bite right through fast enough on those longer cuts I don't tend to push like I did with other blades..

[Norm Fengstad]

Yes many things we unconciously do during cutting may shorten a blade life but sometimes a blade just seems to have shorter than another blade from the same bundle. I have inserted a Pegas Mdf 5 and a Niqua uiltra that wouldn't cut at all , on examination bottom half of the teeth were missing don't think it was because of something I done. As I often say "Compost Happens" 

[Wichman]

I've been experiencing the same thing lately with blades. I recently cut a piece that took a lot of blades to complete, 40 in all, I broke at least six of the blades before I even got them through the wood. These were from a reputable manufacturer and a know source.

And yes, poo poo occurs

 

[TAIrving]

If it is a real manufacturing issue there should be a significant number of "me too's".  If not, then you might need to examine other possibilities.

I have not had such an issue, but then I have not bought blades in the last several months and those I have seem to last a long time.  

[rash_powder]

I've been using 1/4" poplar for the ornaments.  I have found that running about 1100 strokes/min (by my adjuster) and approx 1/2 turn on my tension rod (Hegner says 1 turn max) has been working best.  I was running nearly wide open, so this is wicked slow by comparison.  I am pretty sure I'm not side-loading the blade as I do check myself on that quite often; also I have been trying to check and re-set tension often since it seems to loosen on me.  Cutting with the grain is sssssllllllooooooowwwwww going!  I have to slow the strokes down and I know I am prob pushing to hard, but it seems like I can't cut with the grain otherwise.  

Since I changed my cutting speed and feed rates I haven't broken a blade in the last 10ish blades, so thats good.  

Will just keep going and change one thing at a time and sooner or later I will figure it out.  

 

Thanks!

[Bill WIlson]

I'll throw another variable into the equation.  Different boards, of the same thickness and species of wood, will cut differently.  Not something we usually consider, but it does happen.  I was cutting some 1/2" red oak yesterday.  I was having some difficulty, the blade seemed dull and tended to wander, even though it was a fresh blade.  I double checked tension.  Same result.  I tried the same blade on a different piece of 1/2" red oak.  It cut much better.  I've cut cherry before that would burn as soon as the blade touched the wood.  Different piece of cherry, same thickness, no burning. 

[Sparkey]

Could be you are pushing too hard, trying to cut too fast. Try slowing down a little and see if that helps. I stack cut three of these. They are 1/4” plywood and I can cut it out with only two tiny 3/0 spiral blades.

[CharleyL]

If the blade is burning the sides of the cut, you are doing something wrong.

For many new to scrolling that I have taught, they run the saw too fast when first learning. They think that running it faster will do a better job and they can finish faster, but this is not the case. When the blade is burning the wood, it is also an indication that the blade itself is overheating (it's likely well over 300 deg). When a tempered steel blade overheats, it looses it's temper and begins getting dull very quickly. The result is usually blade breakage a short time later. It may also stretch and loose it's tension long before it breaks. The blade teeth are tiny and can only remove tiny bits of wood, and they usually fill very quickly in use. When the teeth have cut away enough to fill them, they can no longer remove any wood, so no matter how hard you push the wood into the blade or how fast you run the scroll saw, the blade can only remove a tiny amount of wood per stroke. Beyond that, you are bending, breaking, and overheating the blade and causing excessive wear on the saw. A dull blade will not cut straight, and loss of blade tension will both make it very difficult to follow the pattern line, even if you have considerable experience of scrolling. Your blade will last a very long time and your work won't be burned. You will be able to follow the pattern lines better too. Enjoy the scrolling journey. Let the destination (completion of the project) happen whenever it does. Your work and you will be better for it.

Charley

[timelett]

Don't they say,slow and steady wins the race?

[OCtoolguy]

6 hours ago, timelett said:

Don't they say,slow and steady wins the race?

Yup!

[new2woodwrk]

I've been experiencing a  lot of blade failure lately as well.

I have dozens of Pegas MFG #3 which I have been using exclusively all year for my stuff. I cut 3/4 poplar and basswood and notice the blades are not holding up as long as they have in the past.

I was thinking it was the wood and perhaps I was getting more dense wood which I do sometimes get, but the more I cut the more I think the blades are not being produced to the same quality they were previously-

My wife is noticing the exact same thing. We used to be able to cut 4-5 puzzles or  3-4 wall hangers with one blade, now we're lucky to get through 2 wall hangers before cutting with the grain become unbearable and find ourselves pushing way too hard just to get the cut done.

 

[OCtoolguy]

22 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

I've been experiencing a  lot of blade failure lately as well.

I have dozens of Pegas MFG #3 which I have been using exclusively all year for my stuff. I cut 3/4 poplar and basswood and notice the blades are not holding up as long as they have in the past.

I was thinking it was the wood and perhaps I was getting more dense wood which I do sometimes get, but the more I cut the more I think the blades are not being produced to the same quality they were previously-

My wife is noticing the exact same thing. We used to be able to cut 4-5 puzzles or  3-4 wall hangers with one blade, now we're lucky to get through 2 wall hangers before cutting with the grain become unbearable and find ourselves pushing way too hard just to get the cut done.

 

Whoever you buy your blades from might like to get that feedback. A few years back, Pegas had a whole bunch of bad blades and didn't say a word, just send out new ones. I had bought a gross from Qtena.com and when I reported to them that I had some of the blades that had been id'd as bad, they sent me another whole gross. I'm still using up the first gross. 

[Fedido]

I have been having trouble with Flying Dutchman #3 and #5's lately as well. reduced tension and ran a #7 to make sure it wasn't me. #7 did great, older blade though. In short, I believe there is some sort of problem or the wood being used is less than stellar. Less than stellar wood wouldn't surprise me. 

[William Eicehelberger]

I had a problem that the blades wouldn't cut  the same as they use to. I checked out my set up it looked good so ci then checked my excel and founded the the upper arm was not level with the table I straighten it out and the blades began to run fine again .It didn't make any since to me but it did help. It has something do do with the blade tension

IKE. 

[Jim Blume]

Now and again any blade manufacturer will have some problems with tempering blades. But this doesn't sound to be the case here. There are many reasons for a blade dulling quickly, but it basically all comes down to heat. Hard or pitchy woods with too small a blade or running your saw at too high a speed will produce friction, thus heat and a loss of tempering. Pushing too hard will do the same thing. The idea is to let the blade do the work, and if it is too slow for your tastes, find a different blade perhaps. I cut 4 stacks in most things using 1/8" Baltic Birch, and my go to blades are FD Ultra Reverse # 1. 3 and 5. For example, cutting ornaments with a dozen or so holes, I can do 3 or 4 ornaments with each blade. The blades are dull to me when I can't "feather the edges" to line up the beginning with the end of a cut. White the blade still cuts, the set iss gone and therefore I chuck it. Some folks try to save blades and keep using them beyond what I do. But when blades are purchased by the gross, the cost per blade is less than 25 cents each.

There are many suggestions on this thread and hopefully one if us mentioned something that will help you. Good luck, and remember, what I or anyone else does is only offered as a possibility. What you end up deciding for yourself is best....for you. And that comes with a bit of trial and error.