Spray finish help...

[Iguanadon]

I started making these key/leash racks and I've been using rattle can spray finish (image below) but I'm ready to upgrade and some folks recommended the Titan sprayer (image below).  Well it just went on sale for $200 and I think I'll jump at that.  Now my question is, what would you recommend I use in it?  What type of finish? Thanks for your suggestions and assistance.

[OCtoolguy]

42 minutes ago, Iguanadon said:

I started making these key/leash racks and I've been using rattle can spray finish (image below) but I'm ready to upgrade and some folks recommended the Titan sprayer (image below).  Well it just went on sale for $200 and I think I'll jump at that.  Now my question is, what would you recommend I use in it?  What type of finish? Thanks for your suggestions and assistance.

Scott, I'm no professional by any means but from all I've read on the subject, it seems that clear laquer is the go-to finish for both finish and clean up. Or maybe a water based poly. I'm sure others will be chiming in and I'll be watching for sure. I wish I had room for all the stuff I want.

 

[WolfmoonCT]

I would vote water based poly.  Cleanup with water.  Just makes it easier.

[timelett]

Looks like it's the way to go if doing a lot of spraying, the paint in cans is crazy expensive, not much paint in those cans.

Edited December 7, 2021 by timelett

[kmmcrafts]

I like the speed that Lacquer dries.. BUT, you need some very good ventilation as that stuff has a strong smell.. and will make your projects smell bad for a couple days..

That said.. I have messed with some of the water based polyurethane and I have to say it dries just about as fast or maybe even faster.. Much less potent smell and could actually be mailed out after drying for a few hours.. so that is what I've been using for the last 6-8 months.

I suggest you buy and try spray cans of either one and see what you like. Those two I mentioned is probably about the fastest drying finishes that I know of.. OH, another fairly fast drying finish is Shellac.. also not too strong smelling.. Lacquer is potent stuff.. don't light any sparks or matches after spraying that stuff, LOL 

[Tom-in-Ashland]

if you can spray outside or in front of an exhaust fan (because the solvent vapor is toxic) I would suggest Lacquer.  It will not give any color to your wood.  Otherwise you might consider a water based lacquer - I think Target coatings makes one.  The problem with about any water based finish is they may raise the grain a little.

[Dave Monk]

I have that gun. I would recommend getting the fine finish cup for it. I use Sherman Williams Pre catalyzed lacquer. Thin it about 50%. Been spraying with it for about 3 years and love it.  I always leave lacquer in the gun...........soak the tip in thinner only when it needs it.  

[kmmcrafts]

The water base poly doesn't change the color tone to the wood like the oil base does.. however you seem to like the mineral oil poping the grain colors so you might be better off with shellac? Tom is correct in the fact that water based finishes might raise the grain some. Another thing to think about is humidity.. being right next to the ocean.. that could affect the lacquer.. I know it's a big factor with auto lacquer based paints and clears.. I would assume the same for wood finish as well? 

[Dave Monk]

8 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

The water base poly doesn't change the color tone to the wood like the oil base does.. however you seem to like the mineral oil poping the grain colors so you might be better off with shellac? Tom is correct in the fact that water based finishes might raise the grain some. Another thing to think about is humidity.. being right next to the ocean.. that could affect the lacquer.. I know it's a big factor with auto lacquer based paints and clears.. I would assume the same for wood finish as well? 

Occasionally if the humify is super high I have to add retarder. 

[WayneMahler]

With water based poly you need to add an extra step. Wipe down the piece to be sprayed let dry then sand very lightly to remove the raised wood fibers. Doesn't take long and I use 400 for this. Lacquer you need great ventilation and a proper mask for protection. Both dry fairly fast. Both should be llightly sanded between coats for that smooth finish. Let us know what you decide.  

[NC Scroller]

I spray water based poly with this unit from Rockler.  Very simple and easy.  Simple cleanup. No compressor required.  I can also spray lacquer but water based poly is safer.  The water based poly I use is made by General finish.

Rockler HVLP Finishing Sprayer | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware

[BadBob]

I was going to suggest shellac.

Be aware of the humidity. It needs to be below 70% or it will absorb water out of the air. I mention this because I lived near Carolina Beach for several years. Humidity is going to be an issue no matter what you spray.

It spray well and cleans up easy even if you let it dry. If you buy flakes and mix your own, you can get several colors.

If you wan to use sand paper on it I recommend a dewaxed shellac.

 

 

[Iguanadon]

Great info everyone, keep it coming... 

[new2woodwrk]

I use several types of spray finishes with my projects

• Puzzles - spray shellac always - 1-2 coats as needed
• Wall hangers interior - polyurethane always - 1 - 2 coats -usually 2 for a heftier finish
• Wall hangers exterior - Spar Polyurethane always - 2 coats -usually for a heftier finish
• Frames - 2 coats -usually for a heftier finish
• Silhouettes/fret work - depending on the wood can be up to 4 coats poly depending how shiny I want it
• Cabinets and furniture - up to 6 coats poly spar for outdoor pieces

I just got an incredible deal on that acrylic spray for $4 a can limit 6 to a customer - I got 6 and Jennifer got 6. Once it's gone, back to spraying

Edited December 7, 2021 by new2woodwrk

[Sparkey]

I use Arm R Seal. I thin it with around 10% mineral spirits. It won’t flake or peal. Everybody I know that sells bowls and things use this. Have you thought of using a small inexpensive air brush since what you are finishing is small.

[kmmcrafts]

Do you have a air compressor Scott? I think if I was going to experiment with spray equipment I'd go with a small cheap set-up before spending bigger money on something that may not work well for your needs. Harbor Freight has some real cheap HVLP spray guns ( like $14 cheap ) If you have a compressor I'd experiment with something like that to see of spraying bulk quantity's of product is going to work for you..

[Iguanadon]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Do you have a air compressor Scott? I think if I was going to experiment with spray equipment I'd go with a small cheap set-up before spending bigger money on something that may not work well for your needs. Harbor Freight has some real cheap HVLP spray guns ( like $14 cheap ) If you have a compressor I'd experiment with something like that to see of spraying bulk quantity's of product is going to work for you..

Hey Kev, no, I don't have a compressor.  I'll see how this goes.  Won't be the first time I spent a few dollars that didn't pan out.  LOL

[BadBob]

15 hours ago, Sparkey said:

Have you thought of using a small inexpensive air brush since what you are finishing is small.

I 2nd this suggestion.

[Bill WIlson]

On 12/7/2021 at 10:39 AM, BadBob said:

I was going to suggest shellac.

Be aware of the humidity. It needs to be below 70% or it will absorb water out of the air. I mention this because I lived near Carolina Beach for several years. Humidity is going to be an issue no matter what you spray.

It spray well and cleans up easy even if you let it dry. If you buy flakes and mix your own, you can get several colors.

If you wan to use sand paper on it I recommend a dewaxed shellac.

 

 

I'm a big fan of spraying shellac.  It works great for decorative items like scroll sawn projects.  It isn't as durable as poly or lacquer, but for the kind of stuff most of us make, it doesn't have to be.  I like the look of shellac and it rubs out very easily, once cured.

Shellac dries very fast, so you can apply it in several light coats, hitting it from all angles to get good coverage on inside cuts, without ponding and runs and finish in a couple hours time.  Any smell from the shellac will dissipate in short order.  Cured shellac will dissolve in denatured alcohol, so even if you let your sprayer go for a while, you can run a little DNA through it and be back in business.  You can also use diluted household ammonia to clean up.  Just be careful, because it will etch aluminum. 

Caveat - It is recommended that you use caution when spraying shellac, because it contains DNA, that gets vaporized during spraying, technically it is volatile enough to be considered a flash or fire hazard.  I'm sure most solvent based finishes are also considered dangerous.  Use your best judgment as to how much risk there really is.  I've sprayed in my basement shop many times.  I don't have a proper spray booth.  I use fans to draw air out a window with a filter over it, but do not have explosion proof lights & such, like you are supposed to have.  

[BadBob]

Shellac is repairable with no sanding.

[kmmcrafts]

20 hours ago, Bill WIlson said:

I'm a big fan of spraying shellac.  It works great for decorative items like scroll sawn projects.  It isn't as durable as poly or lacquer, but for the kind of stuff most of us make, it doesn't have to be.  I like the look of shellac and it rubs out very easily, once cured.

Shellac dries very fast, so you can apply it in several light coats, hitting it from all angles to get good coverage on inside cuts, without ponding and runs and finish in a couple hours time.  Any smell from the shellac will dissipate in short order.  Cured shellac will dissolve in denatured alcohol, so even if you let your sprayer go for a while, you can run a little DNA through it and be back in business.  You can also use diluted household ammonia to clean up.  Just be careful, because it will etch aluminum. 

Caveat - It is recommended that you use caution when spraying shellac, because it contains DNA, that gets vaporized during spraying, technically it is volatile enough to be considered a flash or fire hazard.  I'm sure most solvent based finishes are also considered dangerous.  Use your best judgment as to how much risk there really is.  I've sprayed in my basement shop many times.  I don't have a proper spray booth.  I use fans to draw air out a window with a filter over it, but do not have explosion proof lights & such, like you are supposed to have.  

 

17 minutes ago, BadBob said:

Shellac is repairable with no sanding.

I think Shellac is very sensitive to humidity.. Scott being only a couple blocks from the ocean might effect his results with it.. Lacquer is also sensitive but can add retarder to it to help.. But it's very flammable and strong smell.. so much so that if you have close neighbors could be an issue depending on how much you're spraying at a time etc. For his location and what he's doing.. I'd think the water based poly might be the best solution however I'm not sure he's up to the task of sanding the raised grain before applying the second coat.. 

I think he may need to consider "trying" the suggested finishes in spray cans to see how he likes them.. I'm not sure how much output or nozzle sizes of the sprayer that he's looking to buy but I can say that the spray guns I have will spray about as much as 4 spray cans spraying at once so the volume would be much more over spray going into the air.. 

I'll be interested in hearing how this works out for him and what his choice of spray is going to be.. 

[Davevand]

I bought a bunch of items from an estate sale and one of these was in the box. Touchup gun I use it with my little PC compressor and it works well.  I have used it to spray numerous small projects with shellac. lacquer and WB poly.  If I am just finishing one small item I will still use a rattle can simply for convenience, but bigger projects or multiple item I get the gun out.  I do have a bigger Earlex HVLP that I can use for bigger projects but I rarely use it these days.

[NC Scroller]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

 

I think Shellac is very sensitive to humidity.. Scott being only a couple blocks from the ocean might effect his results with it.. Lacquer is also sensitive but can add retarder to it to help.. But it's very flammable and strong smell.. so much so that if you have close neighbors could be an issue depending on how much you're spraying at a time etc. For his location and what he's doing.. I'd think the water based poly might be the best solution however I'm not sure he's up to the task of sanding the raised grain before applying the second coat.. 

I think he may need to consider "trying" the suggested finishes in spray cans to see how he likes them.. I'm not sure how much output or nozzle sizes of the sprayer that he's looking to buy but I can say that the spray guns I have will spray about as much as 4 spray cans spraying at once so the volume would be much more over spray going into the air.. 

I'll be interested in hearing how this works out for him and what his choice of spray is going to be.. 

I am also in North Carolina and my shop is surrounded by trees and about 100 feet from a 35-mile-long lake so I understand humidity.  This works for me. My process is I first dip or brush on natural color Danish oil. Really like how the Danish oil brings out the grain.  I then wait a day to spray with water based poly.  Normally 2 or 3 light coats.  Water based poly can be resprayed after about 30 minutes. I have had no raised grain issues or not drying due to humidity. 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, NC Scroller said:

I am also in North Carolina and my shop is surrounded by trees and about 100 feet from a 35-mile-long lake so I understand humidity.  This works for me. My process is I first dip or brush on natural color Danish oil. Really like how the Danish oil brings out the grain.  I then wait a day to spray with water based poly.  Normally 2 or 3 light coats.  Water based poly can be resprayed after about 30 minutes. I have had no raised grain issues or not drying due to humidity. 

 

That's how I do finishing IF I am top coating.. most my items just get Danish Oil without a top coat so I don't do this much.. and hate having to take the time to do it when I need too.. That being said.. I don't see Iggy wanting to sand raised grain of plain poly finish.. but I also don't see him wanting to finish twice ( ie dip in danish oil and then wait 2-3 days and then spray poly).. Also don't see him OR the neighbors liking the lacquer spray finish either... So I say it's going to be interesting what he does.. But I also don't know the output of the sprayer he's looking to use.. nor do I know the level of spraying he'll be doing in a batch.. or how many days a week he'll be spraying.. Being in production mode like he is ( me too at a level ) I see him wanting to streamline this to be as simple as can be possible.. I may be wrong but I see him going back to spray cans how he's been doing it.. They are quick, easy to grab and go at it.. when the cans empty throw it out.. I don't see him liking the hassle of cleaning the sprayer up now and then or stopping to mix up more finish to fill the gun up.. There is extra steps to having spray equipment.. just grabbing a can and spraying is where I see him.. yeah it's more expensive to use spray cans but sometimes convenience is worth paying for.. As I said before.. It'll be interesting to see how this works out for him.. 

[OCtoolguy]

9 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

 

That's how I do finishing IF I am top coating.. most my items just get Danish Oil without a top coat so I don't do this much.. and hate having to take the time to do it when I need too.. That being said.. I don't see Iggy wanting to sand raised grain of plain poly finish.. but I also don't see him wanting to finish twice ( ie dip in danish oil and then wait 2-3 days and then spray poly).. Also don't see him OR the neighbors liking the lacquer spray finish either... So I say it's going to be interesting what he does.. But I also don't know the output of the sprayer he's looking to use.. nor do I know the level of spraying he'll be doing in a batch.. or how many days a week he'll be spraying.. Being in production mode like he is ( me too at a level ) I see him wanting to streamline this to be as simple as can be possible.. I may be wrong but I see him going back to spray cans how he's been doing it.. They are quick, easy to grab and go at it.. when the cans empty throw it out.. I don't see him liking the hassle of cleaning the sprayer up now and then or stopping to mix up more finish to fill the gun up.. There is extra steps to having spray equipment.. just grabbing a can and spraying is where I see him.. yeah it's more expensive to use spray cans but sometimes convenience is worth paying for.. As I said before.. It'll be interesting to see how this works out for him.. 

All very sound points Kevin.