Spray finish help...

[NC Scroller]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

 

That's how I do finishing IF I am top coating.. most my items just get Danish Oil without a top coat so I don't do this much.. and hate having to take the time to do it when I need too.. That being said.. I don't see Iggy wanting to sand raised grain of plain poly finish.. but I also don't see him wanting to finish twice ( ie dip in danish oil and then wait 2-3 days and then spray poly).. Also don't see him OR the neighbors liking the lacquer spray finish either... So I say it's going to be interesting what he does.. But I also don't know the output of the sprayer he's looking to use.. nor do I know the level of spraying he'll be doing in a batch.. or how many days a week he'll be spraying.. Being in production mode like he is ( me too at a level ) I see him wanting to streamline this to be as simple as can be possible.. I may be wrong but I see him going back to spray cans how he's been doing it.. They are quick, easy to grab and go at it.. when the cans empty throw it out.. I don't see him liking the hassle of cleaning the sprayer up now and then or stopping to mix up more finish to fill the gun up.. There is extra steps to having spray equipment.. just grabbing a can and spraying is where I see him.. yeah it's more expensive to use spray cans but sometimes convenience is worth paying for.. As I said before.. It'll be interesting to see how this works out for him.. 

I agree Kevin.  It works for me.  When I spray, and I don't spray everything, I usually wait to have multiple pieces that I want more finish on than just Danish oil.  I rarely am in the position where I cut and then ship/deliver within a few days.  When I must deliver with a quick TAT, I grab a rattle can of shellac.

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, NC Scroller said:

I agree Kevin.  It works for me.  When I spray, and I don't spray everything, I usually wait to have multiple pieces that I want more finish on than just Danish oil.  I rarely am in the position where I cut and then ship/deliver within a few days.  When I must deliver with a quick TAT, I grab a rattle can of shellac.

When/if I take an order, I tell them not to place the order if they are in a hurry. So, I get to take my time and do it my way. And that varies on every project. I'm too new to the hobby to have any set ways yet.

 

[Iguanadon]

On 12/9/2021 at 12:41 PM, kmmcrafts said:

 

That's how I do finishing IF I am top coating.. most my items just get Danish Oil without a top coat so I don't do this much.. and hate having to take the time to do it when I need too.. That being said.. I don't see Iggy wanting to sand raised grain of plain poly finish.. but I also don't see him wanting to finish twice ( ie dip in danish oil and then wait 2-3 days and then spray poly).. Also don't see him OR the neighbors liking the lacquer spray finish either... So I say it's going to be interesting what he does.. But I also don't know the output of the sprayer he's looking to use.. nor do I know the level of spraying he'll be doing in a batch.. or how many days a week he'll be spraying.. Being in production mode like he is ( me too at a level ) I see him wanting to streamline this to be as simple as can be possible.. I may be wrong but I see him going back to spray cans how he's been doing it.. They are quick, easy to grab and go at it.. when the cans empty throw it out.. I don't see him liking the hassle of cleaning the sprayer up now and then or stopping to mix up more finish to fill the gun up.. There is extra steps to having spray equipment.. just grabbing a can and spraying is where I see him.. yeah it's more expensive to use spray cans but sometimes convenience is worth paying for.. As I said before.. It'll be interesting to see how this works out for him.. 

Hilarious... you do know me pretty well.  LOL  I won't be surprised if I go back to rattle can... it is very simple.

[kmmcrafts]

25 minutes ago, Iguanadon said:

Hilarious... you do know me pretty well.  LOL  I won't be surprised if I go back to rattle can... it is very simple.

Well considering how "I" try to streamline things myself, and considering I have the spraying equipment and don't use it was my thought process..

[new2woodwrk]

I have and still do both - spray cans and spray finishes

I think Kevin is right on the money, Production is always slowed when using a sprayer and the clean up can become a real PITA.

While I like the finish of multi-coats of poly, the 24 hour wait time between is a real production bottle neck. I realize you don't have to wait 24, but there is a marked improvement in the finish by waiting the full 24 before applying a 2nd coat.

Right now, I'm still on the Acrylic spray with the deal I got on 12 cans for $5 each! I still keep a full supply of poly in my shop for "special" items though when I don't mind the clean up (I have the clean up minimized to a few minutes - Mineral Spirits spray out + soapy water spray/clean out works great)

 

[Bill WIlson]

I've put my spray gun away many times, without cleaning it, other than shoot a little DNA through it when I was done.  If I know I'm going to be using it again within a relatively short period of time (days to a week, maybe 2), I don't bother with a thorough cleaning.  Shellac is so easy to clean that it really isn't necessary.  I don't spray anything else through the guns but shellac though.

I do use spray cans for small, quick jobs.  However, I don't really like how it goes on.  I prefer the added control of the spray gun and it does a better job for me.  I can dial in the coverage and the amount of material applied, to match the job at hand much better.

[John B]

I have a compressor and use spray guns. They may of improved these "Airless" guns by now, but I have never had much luck with them in the past and considering the cost of decent compressors these days that's the way I would go. Also noting that a compressor allows the use of other tools like nail, pin and staple guns, Tyre inflaters and blowers etc.
I almost 100% of the time use lacquer, either automotive clear or that designed specifically for wood. I have tried water based but it does nothing for me, considering the principle reasons for finishing timber. 1 to protect the item. 2 enhance the look.
Lacquer dries quickly, cuts back easily, and you can rapidly apply extra coats to improve the depth of finish.  Finishing is a vital part in the completion of a piece, just like sanding, designing. cutting and assembly etc so can not, should not be, looked upon as just a quick necessary step to get you item out the door.

[kmmcrafts]

15 hours ago, John B said:

 Finishing is a vital part in the completion of a piece, just like sanding, designing. cutting and assembly etc so can not, should not be, looked upon as just a quick necessary step to get you item out the door.

I agree 100% but also this is dependent on the project at hand too.. I can't see trying to apply several coats of finish to a puzzle or Christmas ornaments that have a lot of detailed fret cutouts.. where you cannot really "sand inside the fret cutouts" to do a "proper"  multi coat finishing.. This is 100% why I refuse to use topcoats on fretwork pieces.. Trying to finish puzzle pieces with a top coat is pointless and would be a royal pain to do "all" the edges of each piece.. Those projects in order to keep production flowing smoothly need that quick finish.. 

Now if you're talking bandsaw boxes, signs etc. where you're working with flat smooth surfaces then yes a nice lacquer finish done properly enhances the piece drastically over just a quick dip in oil and send it out.. I do the better finishing when it's practical.. That said,  for me.. I mostly make and sell ornaments, puzzles and desk clocks in which is mostly fretwork. To me a top coat on anything fretwork looks terrible if it has cutouts with the different grain patterns ( ie end grain and face grain ) as end, edge grains soak up a lot of top coat.. in doing the spraying it's almost impossible to get "good " coverage on all edges without getting it all over the face surface as well.. so you get a nice looking face surface but then looking closely the cutouts are lacking good coverage. Just an example as to why I prefer Danish oils.. because they do enhance the wood grain on all surfaces.. quick and easy but still produces a nice finished product that doesn't bottleneck production. Like I said.. larger flat surfaces.. top coating would be better than just a quick dipping and sending it. 

[John B]

8 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I agree 100% but also this is dependent on the project at hand too.. I can't see trying to apply several coats of finish to a puzzle or Christmas ornaments that have a lot of detailed fret cutouts.. where you cannot really "sand inside the fret cutouts" to do a "proper"  multi coat finishing.. This is 100% why I refuse to use topcoats on fretwork pieces.. Trying to finish puzzle pieces with a top coat is pointless and would be a royal pain to do "all" the edges of each piece.. Those projects in order to keep production flowing smoothly need that quick finish.. 

Now if you're talking bandsaw boxes, signs etc. where you're working with flat smooth surfaces then yes a nice lacquer finish done properly enhances the piece drastically over just a quick dip in oil and send it out.. I do the better finishing when it's practical.. That said,  for me.. I mostly make and sell ornaments, puzzles and desk clocks in which is mostly fretwork. To me a top coat on anything fretwork looks terrible if it has cutouts with the different grain patterns ( ie end grain and face grain ) as end, edge grains soak up a lot of top coat.. in doing the spraying it's almost impossible to get "good " coverage on all edges without getting it all over the face surface as well.. so you get a nice looking face surface but then looking closely the cutouts are lacking good coverage. Just an example as to why I prefer Danish oils.. because they do enhance the wood grain on all surfaces.. quick and easy but still produces a nice finished product that doesn't bottleneck production. Like I said.. larger flat surfaces.. top coating would be better than just a quick dipping and sending it. 

I have to disagree Kevin. I lacquer my puzzles and fret work with multiple coats.
I have seen so many good cuttings, and work ruined (Not looking it's best) because of the lack of finishing skills, from sanding to polishing.
Personally, I would never use an oil, without a film coat over the top .
 

[kmmcrafts]

4 hours ago, John B said:

Personally, I would never use an oil, without a film coat over the top .
 

And what exactly is the purpose of top coating over danish oil? It has poly mixed in with it so there is a bit of sealer / protection with it.. I'm talking specifically for puzzles like shown in the photo. How do you do proper coverage with a top coat inside the cutouts? Inside and outside of each piece. inside the puzzle tabs ( female & male portions ) sanding these areas alone for a second coat would be pretty tedious to say the least.. mind you, you have to make it practical so you can keep it a practical price for a customer.. Yes there are a range of customers that'd pay $200+ for this puzzle with the nice topcoat finish on it.. There is also a lot of money to be made by making these practical and lower priced for a kid to play with them. Doubting anyone would make much money selling these at $200 +each. Doubting after a year of kids playing with them the top coat would still look great.. if one can ever get it to look great on all surfaces.   

I would love to see a video of you spraying the cutouts in the wheels on this and getting even coverage throughout those cutouts from front to back without distorting or flooding the main surface...  I've got 37 years of automotive finishing experience and 15 of those was specifically restoring classic show cars.. I'd rather see a even applied oil dipped finish than a nice looking coat of finish on the flat surface with lots of rough looking over spray half sprayed half way in the cutouts.. pretty tough job to spray all the edges of each piece on all sides.. If you lay them down and spray the front and sides.. the back isn't getting any finish? if you flip it over after the front and sides etc. to spray the back then you're getting over spray on it somewhere of those edges... Like I said.. pretty tough job to practically top coat these puzzles and do a professional job of it..  it's in the details as you mentioned.. or lack there of.. that makes me say there is not fretwork out there that has good even coverage on ALL surface's.. Now.. that said I'm sure it looks great to a lot of people.. and as I have mentioned in one of the previous replies.. I have that trained eye to spot those bad spray coverages. etc.. and to me.. they don't look good.. I just can't bring myself to spray a top coat on fretwork from thick stock.. Now.. thin stock is a bit different... easier to get a even spray on like 1/8" portrait cuts etc.. 

 

 

[John B]

6 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

've got 37 years of automotive finishing experience and 15 of those was specifically restoring classic show cars

Good for you Kev, if want to thump chests, I also have done a 5 year apprenticeship in cabinet making, which included wood finishes and upholstery etc. I have also trained apprentices etc.
You are being a little ridiculous stating that all those  little pieces require two coats etc. As you would then have to cut them thick enough to ensure that they will fit back after coating them.
As I said I would never do an oil finish without a film coat over the top as I do not recognise a plain oil finish as hands friendly and offering enough protection.
If you are happy with it, so be it. You state your opinions often enough, so that was mine.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by John B

[Jim Finn]

I have used spray equipment, including an air brush, spraying lacquer.  Years ago, I tried the rattle can like the one that is shown in the original post.  I can get them for less than $4 but I expect that price to go up nowadays.  I am spraying many, many small items and find this to be the best way for me.