Commission Work – Opinions needed-UPDATED

[FrankEV]

I was commissioned to make this pair of Chinese Dragons panels.  The client chose this Dragon from a group of different Dragons I provided.  The patterns were found on-line and had to be only slightly modified to make it scrollable.  The original had the “ribs” (for lack of a better word) bridging to the opposite side making a multitude of dropouts.

The cut panels are 1/8” x 20” x 30” BB ply mounted on a painted black 1/4" x 20” x 30” BB Ply Backer. 

The cut panels were stack cut to make mirror images with good side up.  Shelf liner was applied to both sides to minimize possible tear out.  All cutting was completed with Pegas #1 spiral blades.  A number of blades broke, mostly because it was difficult to thread the blade from below without kinking the blade.   Keeping the panel flat while cutting was difficult, especially so after some of the larger areas were cut out.  Used a lot of blue tape to hold cutouts in place to help keep the panel somewhat rigid while cutting.  Yes, the little piece in the Dragon’s nose had to be glued back in after the panel was affixed to the backer.

The 20” x 30” BB ply panels were special ordered from Ocooch Hardwoods.  I did not find the prices to be too unreasonable for this special order.  They responded to my request quickly and the order was received within just a few days.  Great service.

Now here is where I need some help and opinions. 

I need to make frames for these panels and cannot decide what width rail/stile I should use.  I typically use 1 3/4" wide, but not sure if that will look the best for these panels.  Often large frames are narrow (3/4”) or, like large paintings, use a much wider  (2 1/2” +)  that may be more appropriate.

Please provide you opinion on what size I might use and tell me why.   

You might want to let me know what color the frame should be also.

Thanks for you help.

EDIT 12/22/21

I made the frames from 1"wide x 3/4" thick Poplar.  I think the 1" frame width works well for these Chinese Dragon mirror image panels.

I did a significant amoiunt of hand sanding to obtain a very smooth surface. I then applied two coats of a Rustolium Black Primer sanding between coats, again to a very smooth finish after which I applied multiple coats of Rustoleum Black Lacquer.  

Just as I was finishing the final coat, the nozzle on the spray can stuck in the open (spraying) position and made a mess, but fortunately not on the frames.

After drying almost 24 hours, I found there was some areas of blush.  Two light coats of Deft Clear Gloss Lacquer did a nice job of getting a bright uniform finish.

 

This commission project was difficult in many respects, but I feel it came out fairly well and am hoping the clients are happy.  I'm not sure I would want to tackle a large panel project like this again.

Thanks again to all that offered comments and advice.   When appropriate and a black frame is needed, I think I will be using Black Lacquer again.

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by FrankEV

[Dave Monk]

1 hour ago, FrankEV said:

I was commissioned to make this pair of Chinese Dragons panels.  The client chose this Dragon from a group of different Dragons I provided.  The patterns were found on-line and had to be only slightly modified to make it scrollable.  The original had the “ribs” (for lack of a better word) bridging to the opposite side making a multitude of dropouts.

The cut panels are 1/8” x 20” x 30” BB ply mounted on a painted black 1/4" x 20” x 30” BB Ply Backer. 

The cut panels were stack cut to make mirror images with good side up.  Shelf liner was applied to both sides to minimize possible tear out.  All cutting was completed with Pegas #1 spiral blades.  A number of blades broke, mostly because it was difficult to thread the blade from below without kinking the blade.   Keeping the panel flat while cutting was difficult, especially so after some of the larger areas were cut out.  Used a lot of blue tape to hold cutouts in place to help keep the panel somewhat rigid while cutting.  Yes, the little piece in the Dragon’s nose had to be glued back in after the panel was affixed to the backer.

The 20” x 30” BB ply panels were special ordered from Ocooch Hardwoods.  I did not find the prices to be too unreasonable for this special order.  They responded to my request quickly and the order was received within just a few days.  Great service.

Now here is where I need some help and opinions. 

I need to make frames for these panels and cannot decide what width rail/stile I should use.  I typically use 1 3/4" wide, but not sure if that will look the best for these panels.  Often large frames are narrow (3/4”) or, like large paintings, use a much wider  (2 1/2” +)  that may be more appropriate.

Please provide you opinion on what size I might use and tell me why.   

You might want to let me know what color the frame should be also.

Thanks for you help.

If I were making it I would be probably make a frame either 2" or 2 1/2" wide. I used black Minwax stain on the backer and frame.

[Scrappile]

Might do a search on Asian picture frames... to get some ideas,  I always struggle with the same question and usually my "cheapness" wins and I go with narrower, get more out of a piece of wood..

[Jim Blume]

My theory on frames is that your eye should go to the portrait and not the frame. Therefore, I would use a simple frame and a narrow matt to further set the portrait off, something like Dave did there with the wolf.

[Wichman]

IMHO the frame should be small and simple 3/4 to 1 inch wide, black, with a sheen to match the piece framed (flat, semi-gloss, or gloss).

 

[Will M]

That is really beautiful,but how did you ever cut a 20in x30in  patern on your saw?

Will M

 

[FrankEV]

32 minutes ago, Will M said:

That is really beautiful,but how did you ever cut a 20in x30in  patern on your saw?

Will M

 

Very Carefully.  I used a spiral blade so no spining of work.  Did have to reposition ocassionally from one side of the saw to the other just to make the overhang off the table was not so bad.  The Pegas saw has a 21" throat and the cutting was actually only 18" wide, so you can manipulate the piece working the cut basically from one side only.

[FrankEV]

38 minutes ago, Wichman said:

IMHO the frame should be small and simple 3/4 to 1 inch wide, black, with a sheen to match the piece framed (flat, semi-gloss, or gloss).

 

My thought exactly and already agreed to by the client.

Thanks  

[Wichman]

Frank,

     How did you handle the weight of the piece when it was overhanging the table?  How did you orient the piece to avoid that?

 

[Dave Monk]

3 hours ago, Jim Blume said:

My theory on frames is that your eye should go to the portrait and not the frame. Therefore, I would use a simple frame and a narrow matt to further set the portrait off, something like Dave did there with the wolf.

Thank you Jim for sharing such an awesome pattern. 

[Dak0ta52]

Very nice as always, Frank. I'd have to use a pint of glue putting pieces back together if I did something like that. As far as the frame, you have already commented that you've made arrangements with the client. My opinion is that it would look good with the framing like on the wolf Dave posted. Just my opinion.

[wombatie]

Awesome work Frank.  Something simple and black for the frame.

Marg

 

[FrankEV]

11 hours ago, Wichman said:

Frank,

     How did you handle the weight of the piece when it was overhanging the table?  How did you orient the piece to avoid that?

 

Fortunately the stacked panel was not heavy.  I attempted to keep as much panel on the table as possible.  I would orient the panel on an angle to the right or left of the back of saw as much as possible so as much of the panel was on the table as possible.  Otherwise, I just supported the panel with my hands.  Like I said,  it became more difficut as some of the large parts was cut out.  By using blue tape to hold the cutouts in place, I was able to make the panel "more" rigid so the overhang did not drop too badly.

This project was a very easy cut (other than the thin areas between cutouts) so the cutting went quite fast.   If this was a more intricate pattern I don't think it would be feasable with out creating extensions for the table to support the panels.  

[daveww1]

very nice job

[new2woodwrk]

I think they look incredible.

As for the frame finish, if you look at Asian art works and furniture, the finish is always an ultra-high gloss finish. It's almost an Epoxy like finish.

I've gotten fairly close to that type of finish once, but it took almost 12 coats of poly gloss!

[Jim McDonald]

Black lacquer after a 600 grit sanding and priming. 

[FrankEV]

20 hours ago, Jim McDonald said:

Black lacquer after a 600 grit sanding and priming. 

I think I'm going to try the Black Lacquer on the frames for these panels.  

I allways sand to 600 or even to 1500 and apply a wood pre-stain conditioner before staining and also used a Lacquer wood conditioner before applying clear lacquer.

I have also painted with All-in-one Paint/Primer. 

However, I have never primed before applying lacquer.  Wondering what kind of primer do you suggest?  

[barb.j.enders]

Those are very nice.  I actually like them as they are - floating on the background.

 

[Jim McDonald]

7 hours ago, FrankEV said:

I think I'm going to try the Black Lacquer on the frames for these panels.  

I allways sand to 600 or even to 1500 and apply a wood pre-stain conditioner before staining and also used a Lacquer wood conditioner before applying clear lacquer.

I have also painted with All-in-one Paint/Primer. 

However, I have never primed before applying lacquer.  Wondering what kind of primer do you suggest?  

One of the best scrollsawer/painters I follow uses Rustoleum primers and get mirror finishes with shaker can paints. 

On Instagram, he is davetaylors3dwoodart and there are mini topics on his home page.

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Jim McDonald

[FrankEV]

Bumped up to top.  Check out my updated original post.

[Sabrina]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:51 PM, Scrappile said:

Might do a search on Asian picture frames... to get some ideas,  I always struggle with the same question and usually my "cheapness" wins and I go with narrower, get more out of a piece of wood..

Hello I'm from quebec and i serch this pattern of the dragon that you were made. Can you give me the internet link to buy it. ?? I managed to reach this page with the photo I found on the net. my email adress is philibert.sabrina@gmail.com

 

[FrankEV]

4 hours ago, Sabrina said:

Hello I'm from quebec and i serch this pattern of the dragon that you were made. Can you give me the internet link to buy it. ?? I managed to reach this page with the photo I found on the net. my email adress is philibert.sabrina@gmail.com

 

Watch for a Private Message from me.

Edited January 4, 2022 by FrankEV

[don watson]

Could you take that email off the page please or alter it so that it can't be scanned by 'bots.