Wichman Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 So I cut this pattern this evening. 5/16" hardwood, FD #1 polar blade, glued directly to the wood, tape added as needed to support the pattern (next time I'll cut the inside first, outside last). Found a feature in Inkscape that will (I think) measure the length of all the lines in a pattern: File in svg mode; import, ungroup, trace bitmap (only use the bitmap image). Select the pattern then; extensions > visualize path > measure path (measurement type, length) Inkscape said that the total path(s) length was 242.78 inches (when I enlarged the pattern and remeasured the length increased proportionally). To compare, Splat Cat, came in at 412 inches. I took 90 minutes to cut out the pattern, so 90 x 60 = 5400 seconds / 242 inches is 22.31 seconds per inch cut. (Yes, my brain melted about then). The whole point of this exercise is my attempt to extrapolate how long it should take me to cut an unknown pattern. If I can get the extra big panels to work it's something I'll need to know. Here is the item: OCtoolguy and crupiea 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don in brooklin on Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Thanks for the tip. Never used that extension before. Interesting, I drew a 6 x 6" square and did the measure path and the size was 23.71" Must do something with the nodes or the options available. The thing that really slows me down is the number of holes should be in the equation too. Thanks again. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Did you calculate your time figuring all this out, I guess I take the easy way out by just adding an hour meter to my saw so that it turns on / off with the saw.. LOL You'll find that with fretwork type of work that hour meter is actually going to be a very small portion of your "real time" .. OCtoolguy, Roberta Moreton, new2woodwrk and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wichman Posted January 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, don in brooklin on said: Thanks for the tip. Never used that extension before. Interesting, I drew a 6 x 6" square and did the measure path and the size was 23.71" Must do something with the nodes or the options available. The thing that really slows me down is the number of holes should be in the equation too. Thanks again. Once you have the drawing converted to paths, you can use Path > break apart to separate the drawing into individual objects. The total number of objects (holes) will be displayed in the bottom notification bar. Note, this can take some time for the program to process. I just did this on the "roses a bunch" pattern; 317.72 inches 118 objects. I'm still learning, so take all this with a grain of salt. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wichman Posted January 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 19 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said: Did you calculate your time figuring all this out, I guess I take the easy way out by just adding an hour meter to my saw so that it turns on / off with the saw.. LOL You'll find that with fretwork type of work that hour meter is actually going to be a very small portion of your "real time" .. No, it's an itch I HAVE to scratch. Until I found the method to figure it out I just had to let it itch, now? Down the rabbit hole. kmmcrafts, new2woodwrk and OCtoolguy 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill WIlson Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 kmmcrafts, Sycamore67, meflick and 6 others 2 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 As Kevin pointed out, the cutting is a small part of the time you consume especially when doing fretwork. That becomes very saw dependent. It literally takes me seconds to switch holes on my Hawk G4. If you have a lower end saw with clamps that require tools that time goes up dramatically. Blade TPI and of course experience will also impact the cut times significantly. new2woodwrk, stoney, OCtoolguy and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 When I took up scrolling, I never dreamed it would become so complicated or confusing. Thanks Wick. Wichman, jr42, Jim Blume and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preprius Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 Us humans seem to add complexity to everything. Look how many reaponses to attaching patterns. Getting lines on a piece of wood has so many methods. Responses to blade questions are many. We humans Especially any engineers like Me make things complicated. Me. Mark Eason Rolf, OCtoolguy and Wichman 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 28 minutes ago, preprius said: Us humans seem to add complexity to everything. Look how many reaponses to attaching patterns. Getting lines on a piece of wood has so many methods. Responses to blade questions are many. We humans Especially any engineers like Me make things complicated. Me. Mark Eason Like the age old question about how optimists and pessimists an engineers see a glass half full of water. The optimists see it as half full, the pessimists see it as half empty and the engineers say, we should have made the glass bigger. Gene Howe and barb.j.enders 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preprius Posted January 27, 2022 Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said: ...... we should have made the glass bigger. But the bean counters say since people don't use the upper half we can reduce cost. And charge the same or more. OCtoolguy, Gene Howe and barb.j.enders 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 4 hours ago, preprius said: But the bean counters say since people don't use the upper half we can reduce cost. And charge the same or more. TRUTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2woodwrk Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 13 hours ago, Wichman said: No, it's an itch I HAVE to scratch. Until I found the method to figure it out I just had to let it itch, now? Down the rabbit hole. I feel your pain... I do similar with every new pattern I cut. I tend to simplify a bit though. Once I have the board ready for prepping I start the clock and stop when I;m done Next is separating, next is profiling, then cutting, then sanding, then dipping and/or finishing then packaging, then uploading for sale. Each phase is timed, written down and then entered into my spreadsheet to get the cost and sales numbers for the unit I can't help myself, I'm lost with out knowing detailed information1 Wichman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roberta Moreton Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 You guys are doing math for fun? There is so much other fun stuff you could be doing instead, like taking out the trash, or cleaning the cats litter box… John B, dgman, kmmcrafts and 6 others 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Roberta Moreton said: You guys are doing math for fun? There is so much other fun stuff you could be doing instead, like taking out the trash, or cleaning the cats litter box… Very allergic to cats.. But that still seems like it'd be way more fun than math.. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wichman Posted January 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 53 minutes ago, Roberta Moreton said: You guys are doing math for fun? There is so much other fun stuff you could be doing instead, like taking out the trash, or cleaning the cats litter box… How's this: OCtoolguy, preprius and new2woodwrk 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preprius Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 what happened to 4 score and 7 seven years Gene Howe, OCtoolguy and Jim McDonald 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timelett Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 I figure if I don't get something finished, hopefully, their's always tomarrow. OCtoolguy and kmmcrafts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 I guess since I have been sawing for 20 years I have a pretty good idea of what I need to charge per-piece.. I'm not desperate for custom work and much of it I just turn down anyway because it takes time away from "normal production" that I end up loosing money by doing custom work.. what I mean by custom work is doing something I don't normally make and do not have proper finishes etc. for that, for instance I get asked to make outdoor signs a lot.. It's best to use certain lumber and finishes etc for outside items.. I can make it but it's not what I make so I kindly turn it down. I'm not so worried about my hourly wage or production, while I'm in business to make money.. some products I make don't make me a large profit on a per hour basis but other products I make I make very good profits from.. Some of those products that are not money makers for me are in a round about way.. as they grab attention to my store.. people come in and see "other cool things" that are cheaper.. and buy that instead.. so they are profit at the end of the day.. Keeping track of time for each aspect of a project from start to finish is a job by itself.. you need to calculate the time it takes you to keep track of your time and be sure to price accordingly.. If you work for a company do they make you punch out to use the bathroom? LOL I think estimated times and pricing is plenty sufficient and yeah sometimes you don't charge enough and you learn not to do that again.. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barb.j.enders Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 This all made my brain hurt at 7:46 in the morning and I even had my coffee!! Wichman and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 19 hours ago, preprius said: Us humans seem to add complexity to everything. Look how many reaponses to attaching patterns. Getting lines on a piece of wood has so many methods. Responses to blade questions are many. We humans Especially any engineers like Me make things complicated. Me. Mark Eason I worked at a National Lab (BNL) in a variety of capacities (loved my job) but primarily a Technician. managed a semiconductor processing lab, a machine shop and got to design and build one of a kind gadgets. I can't think of a better job, That said the Physicists would walk into my office with crazy ideas for things that did not yet exist. They and many of the Engineers where absolutely brilliant but had never built anything. Talk about over complicating things. That is where my moto below kicked in. We had a great balance their brilliance kept me challenged and employed. Edited January 28, 2022 by Rolf preprius and OCtoolguy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Eicehelberger Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 I guess I do things the easiest way. When I start cutting I marked down the time When I finish I mark down the time. Now for the sanding applying the pattern tacking off the pattern and spraying the part with liquor it takes 8 minuets no matter how large the part is but 8 minutes is the average time. If the run time is 30 minutes that takes it to 38 minutes . I charge 40 cents per minute which will bring it up to $25 per hour.. I just go to shows I enjoy the people I get to talk to and do not charge for this time. I have been doing this for 55 - 60 years and it has worked fine ever since the start I just change the 40 cents every once in a while to keep up with the times. I am 82 now and plan to keep doing this till I am 90. I have seen some big improvements in all those years I ;am hoping for 90 years . IKE kmmcrafts and OCtoolguy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCtoolguy Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 13 hours ago, Wichman said: How's this: Thanks Wick, I will print and frame that. Never seen or heard it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McDonald Posted January 28, 2022 Report Share Posted January 28, 2022 16 hours ago, preprius said: what happened to 4 score and 7 seven years Our forefathers brought forth... OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Blume Posted January 29, 2022 Report Share Posted January 29, 2022 On 1/27/2022 at 10:15 PM, Wichman said: How's this: A young southern boy in math class. No Teacher! Pie are round. Cornbread are square. kmmcrafts, OCtoolguy, Rolf and 1 other 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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