My saw has thrown a rod or something. New saw time?

[new2woodwrk]

Last few days my saw (Delta 40-694) sounds like it has thrown a rod or something (if any of you know what that sounds like in your car). BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG!!!

I've taken it apart and greased the one bearing/bushing I could get to and greased the bushings/sleeves for the pegas chuck heads. It has quieted it down somewhat, but I'm afraid after 5 years this saw has seen its last cut

Since these saws are now on back order/not available I'm thinking of going with either a Dewalt 788, or upgrading to one of the higher end saws like a Pegas or Seyco.

I guess most of you feel the new Excalibur are not worth the money but that is also a consideration as the price is competitive to the dewalt now.  Dewalts are running around $550 which has been the price for awhile now. The Excaliburs are running very close to that price for refurbished around $700 or about $900 new (21") but I can get a refurbished/renewd for $550 and free shipping

The Jet series is probably not an option for me AFAIK it's about 100-200 more than the Pegas or Seyco saws and 300-400 over the excaliburs

I'm very open to suggestions and recommendations at this point - either how to get rid of the rod knocking or which saw I should consider. I am putting a lot of time into the saws these days so that is a critical decision piece.

Thanks as always in advance

[dgman]

I stepped up from a DeWALT to a Pegas a year ago. The Pegas is a great saw and I am very pleased with it.

[OCtoolguy]

That sounds like maybe the tension rod is hitting the cover plate just the same as the Dewalts do. There is a fix on scrollsaws.com for the Dewalt. Not difficult if it's the same thing. I've not seen a Delta taken down so I'm not sure.

 

[OCtoolguy]

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM MAINLAND CHINA!!! If you are going to buy a new saw, the King, Excelcior, Pegas, Seyco would be my suggestion. All from Taiwan, probably the same factory. But, the Excaliburs are from China and nothing but trouble. Or try the used market in your area. Just no Chinese junk.

 

[new2woodwrk]

5 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

That sounds like maybe the tension rod is hitting the cover plate just the same as the Dewalts do. There is a fix on scrollsaws.com for the Dewalt. Not difficult if it's the same thing. I've not seen a Delta taken down so I'm not sure.

 

I don't believe that to be the problem. I'll explain...

I had the thing apart and put one side back together so I could run power through it to see if I could "see" what was banging. The lower rod was not even close hitting anything and from what I could tell the upper rod was not making any racket. I could be wrong on the upper arm and I will check that out  as well as the fix you describe.

I did tighten up the pegas chuck heads and that seems to be a significant part of the problem. They don't really tighten all the way - there remains a bit of play in them. I have greased them and tightened as tight as I could without breaking my hex wrench. It is better, but still not as quiet as I would like

[new2woodwrk]

6 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM MAINLAND CHINA!!! If you are going to buy a new saw, the King, Excelcior, Pegas, Seyco would be my suggestion. All from Taiwan, probably the same factory. But, the Excaliburs are from China and nothing but trouble. Or try the used market in your area. Just no Chinese junk.

 

Thanks Ray - there is no local market for these things but I will do my best to stay away from Chinese stuff. I do think my Delta was made in china though LOL

[OCtoolguy]

9 minutes ago, new2woodwrk said:

Thanks Ray - there is no local market for these things but I will do my best to stay away from Chinese stuff. I do think my Delta was made in china though LOL

That might be true and if so, it just backs up what I said. The old saying, "buy the best and cry only once" still holds true. Especially if you are going to make your living with it. Do try that fix though. It does sound like after much use, the tension rod has pulled the sliding wedge too many times and has worn the slot so the rod needs to be shortened up to take out the slack. It's not a hard adjustment. Also, there is a spot on the cover plate that requires filing down to relieve it so the rod can't hit the plate. Again, not a hard fix. As long as the saw still saws, there are things that can be done to prolong the inevitable.

 

[OCtoolguy]

15 minutes ago, new2woodwrk said:

I don't believe that to be the problem. I'll explain...

I had the thing apart and put one side back together so I could run power through it to see if I could "see" what was banging. The lower rod was not even close hitting anything and from what I could tell the upper rod was not making any racket. I could be wrong on the upper arm and I will check that out  as well as the fix you describe.

I did tighten up the pegas chuck heads and that seems to be a significant part of the problem. They don't really tighten all the way - there remains a bit of play in them. I have greased them and tightened as tight as I could without breaking my hex wrench. It is better, but still not as quiet as I would like

Those chuck heads will be loose when not under tension. Once you apply tension with the lever, the slack should disappear. They don't really need to be over tightened with your hex hey. Don't do anything to ruin them. I don't think that's your problem. Did you buy the chucks with the white nylon flip lever or did you buy the chucks made for the Dewalt type of saw? If you are still using the tension slide lever I assume you don't have the flip lever. If you have the flip lever, then you just need to adjust the slide lever to the correct setting and leave it there. All your tensioning will be done by the flip lever. The knockin you are referring to is the rod that goes from the slide lever clear up and back to a sliding wedge in the upper case. It is hitting the aluminum cover that is over it. I'd bet on it.

 

[new2woodwrk]

13 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

Those chuck heads will be loose when not under tension. Once you apply tension with the lever, the slack should disappear. They don't really need to be over tightened with your hex hey. Don't do anything to ruin them. I don't think that's your problem. Did you buy the chucks with the white nylon flip lever or did you buy the chucks made for the Dewalt type of saw? If you are still using the tension slide lever I assume you don't have the flip lever. If you have the flip lever, then you just need to adjust the slide lever to the correct setting and leave it there. All your tensioning will be done by the flip lever. The knockin you are referring to is the rod that goes from the slide lever clear up and back to a sliding wedge in the upper case. It is hitting the aluminum cover that is over it. I'd bet on it.

 

The chuck heads for the Delta do not have a tension lever. The hex heads and lock nuts do not tighten enough and there is a lot of side play in the heads more than there was with the original chuck heads.

Also there is a lot of side play in the arms that hold the chuck heads both top and bottom. But I believe that is normal.

I have tested all the hex heads and lock nuts for tightness and they are pretty much factory tight except for the Pegas heads which are now tighter.

 

[OCtoolguy]

12 minutes ago, new2woodwrk said:

The chuck heads for the Delta do not have a tension lever. The hex heads and lock nuts do not tighten enough and there is a lot of side play in the heads more than there was with the original chuck heads.

Also there is a lot of side play in the arms that hold the chuck heads both top and bottom. But I believe that is normal.

I have tested all the hex heads and lock nuts for tightness and they are pretty much factory tight except for the Pegas heads which are now tighter.

 

All of that looseness should go away as soon as you apply tension. And you answered my question regarding which set you have. I now go back to my original suggestion. I think that will fix your problem. I know it did on my Dewalt when it started knocking. It does make noise.

[jerry1939]

I retired from scrolling & gave my 40-694 to a son.  Loved it.  2 problems I had with it knocking:

1.  Remove the switch cover & cam that pulls the rod for blade tension.  Take a round rasp and file a groove for the rod.

2. On the connecting rod from the motor, there is a bolt that powers everything.  It sheared in the middle, but wasn't visable. Go to a hardware store and replace it with a stainless steel bolt. Stainless is much stronger.

I loved the saw and thought it received too many negative ratings.  Would speculate the everything could be replaced with Dewalt 788 parts, with the possible exception of the motor.  Hang on to it and grease the bearings every year.

[flarud]

Saw this on offerup yesterday in Orlando... and only $100!  LOL  Hopefully the pic works.

[kywoodmaster]

I am with Jerry. The old deltas were notorious for the pitman arm coming loose and yes it sounds like a rod knocking.

[kmmcrafts]

I was kind of thinking... thought I read somewhere the the newer DeWalts are made in China too? Maybe wrong on that 

DeWalt I had was a awesome saw.. and way better saw than my China made Excalibur.. I did have to pull it apart and replace the bearings in the old DW after a couple years.. Once I did that and put some good synthetic grease in the bearings.. that saw run a lot of hours for about another 6 years before needing a complete rebuild again... Back then I didn't saw nearly as much as I do now but I was still running it a lot.. 

Just my opinion.. If you're mechanical enough and are happy with the Delta. I'd try rebuilding the saw and using a good grease.. Pegas and the like saws are great saws.. But I don't see such a huge advantage over the price difference unless you are doing a lot of angle cutting... Really nice to have the table flat and the head tilt instead of the table tilting.. Other than that it's almost the same saw.. You can adjust the blade aggression on the Pegas and like saws but if you're used to using the delta and used to how it cuts then it's probably not going to make a big deal of difference for you.. 

[new2woodwrk]

11 hours ago, jerry1939 said:

I retired from scrolling & gave my 40-694 to a son.  Loved it.  2 problems I had with it knocking:

1.  Remove the switch cover & cam that pulls the rod for blade tension.  Take a round rasp and file a groove for the rod.

2. On the connecting rod from the motor, there is a bolt that powers everything.  It sheared in the middle, but wasn't visable. Go to a hardware store and replace it with a stainless steel bolt. Stainless is much stronger.

I loved the saw and thought it received too many negative ratings.  Would speculate the everything could be replaced with Dewalt 788 parts, with the possible exception of the motor.  Hang on to it and grease the bearings every year.

Thanks @jerry1939 questions:

1. I'm assuming you mean the top arm covers where the on/off switch is?

2. Where to file a groove in the rod?

3. The bolt - are you referring to what they are calling the Eccentric bolt that has that counter weight on it?

Thanks again for suggestions - I too really like this saw!

 

[new2woodwrk]

13 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

I don't believe that to be the problem. I'll explain...

I had the thing apart and put one side back together so I could run power through it to see if I could "see" what was banging. The lower rod was not even close hitting anything and from what I could tell the upper rod was not making any racket. I could be wrong on the upper arm and I will check that out  as well as the fix you describe.

I did tighten up the pegas chuck heads and that seems to be a significant part of the problem. They don't really tighten all the way - there remains a bit of play in them. I have greased them and tightened as tight as I could without breaking my hex wrench. It is better, but still not as quiet as I would like

Ray are you talking about the video where he takes the top of the saw off and turns the rod one turn?

[jerry1939]

6 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

Thanks @jerry1939 questions:

1. I'm assuming you mean the top arm covers where the on/off switch is?

2. Where to file a groove in the rod?

3. The bolt - are you referring to what they are calling the Eccentric bolt that has that counter weight on it?

Thanks again for suggestions - I too really like this saw!

 

1. Yes
2. The rod is OK. File a groove below it to give the rod room.
3. No. Replace bolt number 27 on this schematic.

[OCtoolguy]

10 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

Ray are you talking about the video where he takes the top of the saw off and turns the rod one turn?

Yes, but one turn may not be enough. I had to turn mine 3 or 4 turns if I recall. The point where you file is on the aluminum cover where it sits over the rod. If you check out scrollsaws.com there are pictures to guide you. A whole section there on Dewalt fixes. Very informative and should apply to your saw in most cases. 

To edit: I never saw a video on that particular subject. All the videos I've seen were for disassembling the saw to check out and grease all the bearings/sleeves. The only thing you should have to remove to do what I'm talking about is up where the off/on switch/tension lever is. You have to get under that cover to see the rod. The cover goes over the rod if I recall 

Edited February 3, 2022 by OCtoolguy

[Jaguarguy]

 I love the way everyone helps people with problems here!  Great Forum!

[new2woodwrk]

6 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

Yes, but one turn may not be enough. I had to turn mine 3 or 4 turns if I recall. The point where you file is on the aluminum cover where it sits over the rod. If you check out scrollsaws.com there are pictures to guide you. A whole section there on Dewalt fixes. Very informative and should apply to your saw in most cases. 

To edit: I never saw a video on that particular subject. All the videos I've seen were for disassembling the saw to check out and grease all the bearings/sleeves. The only thing you should have to remove to do what I'm talking about is up where the off/on switch/tension lever is. You have to get under that cover to see the rod. The cover goes over the rod if I recall 

Ok got it - I have this page marked! Thanks a bunch!!!

 

7 hours ago, jerry1939 said:

1. Yes
2. The rod is OK. File a groove below it to give the rod room.
3. No. Replace bolt number 27 on this schematic.

Ok cool - thanks for the explanation - much appreciated!!

[NC Scroller]

I believe that Kevin is correct and the Dewalt is made in China.  Probably the same factory that makes the Delta.

[new2woodwrk]

8 hours ago, NC Scroller said:

I believe that Kevin is correct and the Dewalt is made in China.  Probably the same factory that makes the Delta.

Probably why I can't find one anywhere LOL

UPDATE:

Took the saw apart - did not take the upper arm piece apart.. Yet.

I greased every bearing I could find. One thing that seems to have really helped is tightening the Pegas Chuck heads and greasing the bushings the screws slip into.

But now it is much quieter that it was. Hope it stays that way but can't help thinking I may not need a new saw, but I think I want one anyway!