Spraying a large amount of Ornaments

[scrollingforsanity]

Hey fellow scrollers I need some Input. I usually use clear gloss spray paint to spray a finish after staining  my Ornaments. Anywhere from 500 to a 1000. Well as you know everything has gone sky high in price. Is there anything you guys use that would fairly easy and cost effective? I have tried the Danish oil but it leaves kind of a dull finish on the Baltic birch plywood. Any ideas would help.  Thank you

[kmmcrafts]

What's your method and product for spraying.. I can't imagine doing that amount of product with spray cans.. I hope you're at least buying quart / gallon cans and spraying with a spray gun. If you're not then that's a good start for saving cost. 

With everything going up in cost I hope you've followed up by raising your cost to cover the expense difference. For me and my small business the way I stay competitive is buy supplies in bulk.. Run production runs of product to minimalize tool set-up etc.. stack cut when possible.. calculate blank sizes to minimize wasted wood.. Combine patterns to fill a sheet of paper to minimize paper waste, change solid colored patterns to lines so you're not wasting ink. lots of pattern designers use a slight grey color to mark what to cut etc.. I change them to just lines.. no need to use up ink.  

[scrollingforsanity]

Hi Kevin, I am stack cutting and minimizing wasted wood. even more so now that the wood is so expensive. Yes I have been rattle can spraying them for years. Have not been brave enough to try a spray gun. May have to upgrade. Whats a good laquer to try? I have raised my prices this year. The first time in many years. I pretty much do this for a hobby but still have to be able to pay for the hobby.   

[kmmcrafts]

I'm not a wood finishing expert so someone else will have to suggest what finish would best suit your needs.. I'll say that one that is easy to clean up ( spray equipment isn't fun to clean ) and one that the cleaner needed is cheap and readily available.. Also a finish that is quick drying.. 

If you're staining or dipping in BLO or similar then you'll need something compatible with that as well.. Lacquer doesn't usually go well with oil based stains ( I don't think ).. at least in the automotive world of finishes that would be a big no no.. If it were me and I was always going to be top coating over a oil base stain.. I'd go with the water based Polyurethane.. But I'm sure someone else will have a better opinion on that than I have. But being able to clean up with soap and water.. fast drying.. etc seems like that would fit the bill pretty well. I think Shellac dries pretty quick and cleans up easy with alcohol too.. probably works well for a top coat? I don't know.. Another thing to think about is the fumes being flammable.. as with a spray gun it's easier to put a lot more fumes into the air.

 

Best of luck with whatever you choose.. hopefully someone can offer better advice on what to use. 

 

[Bill WIlson]

I'm a big fan of shellac.  I spray it with a cheap HVLP gun.  It doesn't take much to get set up, if you have an air compressor of sufficient capacity to handle the spray gun.

A little practice on some scrap plywood or even cardboard and you should quickly be able to get the settings dialed in.  Shellac is pretty forgiving.  Spray in very light coats.  It dries very fast, so you can apply multiple coats in short order.

The solvent/thinner for shellac is denatured alcohol.  Unlike oil based finishes and mineral spirits, alcohol will dissolve cured shellac.  That makes clean up pretty easy.  I have a couple spray guns that are devoted exclusively to spraying shellac.  When I'm done, I run a little denatured alcohol through them and wipe them down.  I usually don't tear them down and do a thorough cleaning every time.  When I'm ready to spray again, I run a little DNA through the gun first, making sure I'm satisfied with the spray pattern & alr/liquid mix, then go to it.

I buy Zinsser pre-mixed shellac by the gallon.  Last time I bought it, it was about $50/gal.  I don't know what it is these days.  You can spray it straight from the can or dilute it a little with DNA.  Shellac can be applied over stains & dyes.  Clear shellac will impart a slight amber tint to the wood.  If you get brave, you can buy shellac flakes in many different shades and mix your own.  This could eliminate the staining step altogether.

Shellac is a very versatile finish for projects that don't require a lot of protection, which is most things that scrollers make.  I'm basically self taught, when it comes to spraying.  I don't claim to be great at it, but if I don't get in a hurry, I can do a decent job.

[scrollingforsanity]

Thank you Kevin and Bill. I will look into the shellac. I have a air compressor so I will check out the spray guns as well.  Thanks again for the help.

[MrsN]

for doing that number I would invest in a spray gun. however I am no help at all in which one to get or how to do it since I don't have one yet.

[kmmcrafts]

I suggest a gravity feed gun over any siphon feed gun.. a siphon feed needs quite a lot of air pressure for sucking up the paint.. this in turn makes you blow a lot of air into the shop which in turn can stir up a lot of settled fine dust.. which then can end up on your ornaments.. While you should be spraying in a nice clean and ventilated area anyway.. That all said.. with the higher pressure of the siphon gun trying to spray light weight ornaments.. you might be blowing them around too.. plus you get a ton of spray that is blown out into the air instead of onto your ornaments.. thus requiring more clear usage and wasting a lot of it in the air. 

Some gravity feed guns and HVLP guns can spray decent with as low as 8-10 psi.. siphon guns need usually a minimum of around 40psi.. Gravity feed guns can spray down to the last drop of clear in the cup.. siphon feed guns need enough to reach the siphon straw / tube to suck up the clear which is also a waste of material.. as sometimes that can be a substantial amount to reach the siphon tube if you're aiming the gun down making the clear in the cup go to one side of the cup. 

[tomsteve]

1 hour ago, scrollingforsanity said:

I have a air compressor so I will check out the spray guns as well.  Thanks again for the help.

you might want to look at filtration for the compressor,too. ya want to have clean, dry air running through a spray gun.

you will benefit form a regulator at the gun,too. that keeps pressure consistent at the gun resulting in more gooder consistency of sprayed finish from the gun.

 

spray guns are a science in themselves. some atomize great some dont. better to have a fine mist( better atomization) spray out than have a gun that sprays larger droplets.

tip size plays a part,too. for the finishes you will be spraying, a 1.3 or 1.4 tip size is a good choice.

 

one thing some people(me) have a tendency to do is buy a cheap gun to see if they like spraying. the problem with that is quite similar to buying a cheap scrollsaw and top of the line one- cheap guns can cause a person(me) to want to throw the gun in the trash and give up.

my experience with spray guns started with auto painting. i started with a devilbiss startingline gun. its the bottom of the ladder in quality guns from devilbiss. could never get it to lay down finishes without orange peel and problems.

moved up to a devilbiss finishline gun and saw much better results.

 i finally upgraded to a high quality gun( devilbiss copper tekna) i was in dreamland. 

spraying finishes for woodworking projects is a dream.

[scrollingforsanity]

You guys have given me a lot of information to think about. I will let you know the results when i get it figured out. Thanks to all.

[kmmcrafts]

Tom brings up some good points about atomizing with spray guns and also about nozzle sizes.. 

My opinion is.. with finishing wood you don't need a top dollar gun like you do with spraying cars.. Wood absorbs a lot of what is sprayed on it.. a car finish does very little of that.. spraying a large flat area ( say a car hood, roof or trunk lid ) you need a good gun to lay out a nice smooth finish.. need a person with a very good eye and spraying skills too.. but we'll put that aside for a different topic as it's irrelevant with wood finishing..

I have some of the top of the line spray equipment ( maybe not in todays standards as much of my equipment is from pre 2000's ). I've sprayed with cheap junk guns that atomizing was pretty poor, however having good eye for the spray laying out onto the object and knowing how to cover it and still getting good results comes with experience with laying out a finish.. with auto paints when you start getting a lot of orange peel look.. it can be corrected just simply spraying a flash of nothing but paint reducer ( no paint or very little paint ).. orange peel can also come from using the wrong temp grade of reducers and activators.. this is all with auto paints and really doesn't pertain to spraying a few handfuls of ornament at a time. Spraying outside in the back yard can get tricky because the temp of the car metal can and will vary greatly from the side the sun it hitting it from the side that is more shaded.. 

While spray cans have greatly improved from the years past.. they still are no comparison to spraying with a cheap spray gun.. Spray cans mostly at best give you a good 2-3 inch spray pattern.. perfect for spraying small objects.. not so much for spraying that large flat ( car hood ) area.. Most cheap spray guns will atomize the paint as well as a spray can and you really don't need a 6-12 inch spray pattern for ornaments.. so I say a cheap gun for spraying wood ornaments is probably going to do the job just fine.. since you're satisfied with the current method of spray cans and you're spraying just some small items.. Now.. if you're planning to spray some cabinets or a large table top.. you might consider buying a better gun.. but when spraying small items.. I believe you'll do just fine with a cheap harbor freight spray gun.. Just my opinion..  

[Bill WIlson]

I tend to agree with Kevin.  Spraying most scroll saw work is much different than spraying furniture or cabinets, not to mention cars.  Most scroll saw work is relatively small and/or pierced by dozens if not hundreds of inside cuts.  Rarely do you have large, solid and flat surfaces to finish, which will accentuate flaws in your application.  Scroll saw projects are generally much more forgiving than other woodworking projects.  So a cheaper gun, in the hands of a novice, can produce acceptable, even pretty good results.  As was mentioned, if you are already satisfied with the results you get with a spray can, using a gun, even a cheaper one, should deliver much better.  Just beware of applying too much finish at once.  That is a little easier to do with a spray gun than it is with a rattle can.

[preprius]

might consider hanging ornaments with fishing line to allow the them to spin. 

I was going to say with fishing swivels, but those would get gunked up.

 

[Bill WIlson]

Hanging ornaments from string will let them blow around when you hit them with the sprayed finish.  They need to be secured such that they don't swing and spin while they are being sprayed.

I built a contraption that I used for this purpose.  I only get 3 on it at a time, but I only use it for 3 dimensional ornaments that are too hard to spray lying down flat.  Essentially it's a cross bar, mounted to a piece of plywood.  Have hooks along the top bar and in the base.  Use bent paper clips and rubber bands I attach the ornaments at the top & bottom.  They are held fairly securely, such that I can spray without them blowing all around. The elasticity of the rubber band makes it easy to hook and un-hook them.  I put the whole contraption on a lazy susan platform, which I can then spin around to get all sides.

[scrollingforsanity]

Lots of ideas. I will probably try the cheap Harbor freight spray gun. With the rattle can I just layed the ornaments out on a 4x8 sheet of 1/4 plywood i had laying around and sprayed one side. Let them dry to touch and moved them to a clean dry sheet of plywood. When dry I flipped them and repeated the process. I could spray about 50 at a time roughly. Thank you, guys and girls, for all the input.

[John B]

5 hours ago, Bill WIlson said:

Hanging ornaments from string will let them blow around when you hit them with the sprayed finish.  They need to be secured such that they don't swing and spin while they are being sprayed.

I built a contraption that I used for this purpose.  I only get 3 on it at a time, but I only use it for 3 dimensional ornaments that are too hard to spray lying down flat.  Essentially it's a cross bar, mounted to a piece of plywood.  Have hooks along the top bar and in the base.  Use bent paper clips and rubber bands I attach the ornaments at the top & bottom.  They are held fairly securely, such that I can spray without them blowing all around. The elasticity of the rubber band makes it easy to hook and un-hook them.  I put the whole contraption on a lazy susan platform, which I can then spin around to get all sides.

Bill, I have a lazy susan type thing built into my spray booth. I usually use "Blue Tac" or loops of masking tape to hold the decorations onto a flat board. Spray one side, then do the other, lightly sand and repeat.

[BadBob]

The right airbrush will work well for ornaments.

 

I use Badger Anthem 155, and Patriot 105 airbrushes to spray everything from shellac to acrylic house paint.

[Norm Fengstad]

I started to use "old masters stain" and brush it on instead of dipping and drip dry, slower process but not as much waste the finish is pretty good 

[NC Scroller]

Like you I make and sell ornaments cut from BB and other woods. A couple years back I purchased a finishing sprayer from Rockler.  This is the one, but I paid under $120 on sale.  Rockler HVLP Finishing Sprayer | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware

Anyway, I spray with a water-based poly, either satin or semi-gloss.  Cleanup is quick and easy with warm water IF you clean up immediately after you are done.  I do strongly recommend getting a spare spray cup so you can fill it with warm water and run it through the sprayer immediately after spraying your finish. Yes water-based does raise the grain some but on ornaments it is hardly noticeable. 

 

[John B]

2 hours ago, NC Scroller said:

Like you I make and sell ornaments cut from BB and other woods. A couple years back I purchased a finishing sprayer from Rockler.  This is the one, but I paid under $120 on sale.  Rockler HVLP Finishing Sprayer | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware

Anyway, I spray with a water-based poly, either satin or semi-gloss.  Cleanup is quick and easy with warm water IF you clean up immediately after you are done.  I do strongly recommend getting a spare spray cup so you can fill it with warm water and run it through the sprayer immediately after spraying your finish. Yes water-based does raise the grain some but on ornaments it is hardly noticeable. 

 

I started with a very similar type gun called "Little Beaver". I've had 2 of them, the 1st I bought about 45 years ago and I think the 2nd is still in the shed somewhere? I found them pretty noisy, but things do improve with time, well mostly
When looking for a pic, I found an old ad My 1st was blue.

 

[NC Scroller]

42 minutes ago, John B said:

I started with a very similar type gun called "Little Beaver". I've had 2 of them, the 1st I bought about 45 years ago and I think the 2nd is still in the shed somewhere? I found them pretty noisy, but things do improve with time, well mostly
When looking for a pic, I found an old ad My 1st was blue.

 

John if you are like me things are less noisy these days as my hearing has gone to "hell in a handbasket".  If anyone finds it please return.  My memory and hair may also be there.