Lesson learned! The hard way!

[OCtoolguy]

The other day, I decided to make up another one of those candy/nut baskets that I have made many of. I had an assortment of woods so I decided on the top and bottom of padauk, 3 layers of cherry and 4 layers of poplar. All good at that point, so I cut everything out. Yesterday I glued everything up and left it in clamps overnight. Today, I decided that I'd like to see what it was going to look like after oiling. I had heard a long time ago that a spray of alcohol and water would give a quick look at what the finished product would be like so I give it a few squirts and it definitely give me an idea of how it would look. Unfortunately, the padauk has run down into the top layer of poplar. Sad face here. Oh well, lesson learned and this one will be different than anything I've made so far. I think I'll give it another spray or two and also let it run from the bottom up into the next layer of poplar. It'll just have a look like a "tie-dyed" tee shirt. Dang!

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by OCtoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

Sorry your project didn't go as planned, sounds like you've found a alternative fix for it though.

I see they spray water on cutting boards.. from what I've read they do that to raise the grain to do a final sanding.. I'd never heard the mixture though.. they always say water on the videos I watch on YouTube. After spraying some of my pieces with the water base poly and the grain rising some.. I've learned the hard way not to spray water base unless I plan to sand it again OR it seems to work well if I already have applied Danish oil or some other finish first..

 

[preprius]

Ray,

I was going to message you about what your building. 

Now I know  a 1970s hippie candy bowl.

Me.

Mark Eason

Edited March 26, 2022 by preprius
improper format. i added names.

[OCtoolguy]

Yes Kevin, that's exactly what it will be. LOL. No, somewhere on this forum, it was suggested to do a quick spritz of alcohol. The part of half water may be a mistake. I just know that I have a spray bottle of whatever it is in my shop and I used it. I've done it before with positive results but I never dreamed the padauk would bleed the way it did. That's why I posted "lesson learned". I'll not make that mistake again.

[dgman]

I would never use water to see to see what the finish looks like. Alcohol my be ok but not mixed with water. As Kevin mentioned, water is used to raise the grain to sand off when you are using a water based topcoat. I know you are going to hate hearing this, but I use a spritz of mineral spirits to see what the wood will look like with oil on it. 
Just like everything else in life, woodworking is a trial. You will know better next time you want to mix tropical woods with light woods. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen guys build a chess board with Paduck and Maple. Then sand it all down and end up with a horrible mess! The oils in the Paduck leached into the Maple.

[crupiea]

Hate it when that happens.  

[Dak0ta52]

Keep at it Ray. This piece may turn out to be the best ever!

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, dgman said:

I would never use water to see to see what the finish looks like. Alcohol my be ok but not mixed with water. As Kevin mentioned, water is used to raise the grain to sand off when you are using a water based topcoat. I know you are going to hate hearing this, but I use a spritz of mineral spirits to see what the wood will look like with oil on it. 
Just like everything else in life, woodworking is a trial. You will know better next time you want to mix tropical woods with light woods. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen guys build a chess board with Paduck and Maple. Then sand it all down and end up with a horrible mess! The oils in the Paduck leached into the Maple.

Thanks Dan. I'm pretty sure it was just isopropyl alcohol. No water. 

[NC Scroller]

11 hours ago, dgman said:

I would never use water to see to see what the finish looks like. Alcohol my be ok but not mixed with water. As Kevin mentioned, water is used to raise the grain to sand off when you are using a water based topcoat. I know you are going to hate hearing this, but I use a spritz of mineral spirits to see what the wood will look like with oil on it. 
Just like everything else in life, woodworking is a trial. You will know better next time you want to mix tropical woods with light woods. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen guys build a chess board with Paduck and Maple. Then sand it all down and end up with a horrible mess! The oils in the Paduck leached into the Maple.

The nice thing about a MS approach is you can immediately apply your oil finish without having the MS dry.  Now if you are going to us shellac or lacquer you have to wait.

[TAIrving]

8 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

Thanks Dan. I'm pretty sure it was just isopropyl alcohol. No water. 

isopropyl alcohol typically is a mixture of alcohol and water.  Most common is a 70% mix where the other 30& is water.  But you can also buy 97%.  That's the purest form I have seen in the stores.  

[John B]

@OCtoolguy Ray, many years ago we used to tell what a finished piece would like, eg the grain, by spitting on it not very hygienic so now I just rub a little water on with my finger. The only reason I could see for using the Alcohol (Metho) is that it would dry quicker. No need to drench the item.
As for it raising the grain, it is minimal and as I am sure you have sanded the piece, another 10 seconds to cut it back isn't going to be a problem.
As for colour run, I have seen that with Jarrah and Pine when the joint area has been flooded with finish.
Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

[NC Scroller]

15 minutes ago, TAIrving said:

isopropyl alcohol typically is a mixture of alcohol and water.  Most common is a 70% mix where the other 30& is water.  But you can also buy 97%.  That's the purest form I have seen in the stores.  

Good point.  That is why you can't use isopropyl alcohol to thin shellac.

[barb.j.enders]

36 minutes ago, NC Scroller said:

Good point.  That is why you can't use isopropyl alcohol to thin shellac.

I just bought some shellac flakes and the company recommended 99%  isopropyl alcohol for mixing.  Was able to purchase the alcohol at the pharmacy.  Haven't gotten around to mixing it yet.

[NC Scroller]

13 minutes ago, barb.j.enders said:

I just bought some shellac flakes and the company recommended 99%  isopropyl alcohol for mixing.  Was able to purchase the alcohol at the pharmacy.  Haven't gotten around to mixing it yet.

Yes if it the 99% pure you are good but most over the counter isopropyl is only 88% or less pure.

[redwine]

I ran into that problem with the wood of padauk when I had glued up that wood with maple and proceeded to sand the the piece to a smooth finish! When I cleared off the dust, lo and behold the maple had been stained red! Lesson learned, don't combine a light wood with padauk! After that happened I looked up the history of the wood and found out that where this is grown that the natives use this wood to dye other woods and , this I am not sure of, fabrics also! Anyway just be careful and presand both woods before gluing them up!

Erv

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, John B said:

@OCtoolguy Ray, many years ago we used to tell what a finished piece would like, eg the grain, by spitting on it not very hygienic so now I just rub a little water on with my finger. The only reason I could see for using the Alcohol (Metho) is that it would dry quicker. No need to drench the item.
As for it raising the grain, it is minimal and as I am sure you have sanded the piece, another 10 seconds to cut it back isn't going to be a problem.
As for colour run, I have seen that with Jarrah and Pine when the joint area has been flooded with finish.
Can't wait to see the finished product.

 

John, the idea of using alcohol is it dries fast and leaves no watermark. At least that's what I heard. I just never gave any thought to the possibility of the padauk running. Now I know better. 

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, NC Scroller said:

Good point.  That is why you can't use isopropyl alcohol to thin shellac.

I'm using the 90% type.

[Dave Monk]

When gluing up Padauk you should also wipe it down with acetone to clean off the oil so the glue bonds well. 

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, Dave Monk said:

When gluing up Padauk you should also wipe it down with acetone to clean off the oil so the glue bonds well. 

Thanks Dave. I won't make that mistake again. Now I have to try to figure out how to save what I have. I'm thinking of covering up the bleed-over with some sort of colored decorative rope. I can't just toss it. Gotta figure out something. 

[Dave Monk]

50 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

Thanks Dave. I won't make that mistake again. Now I have to try to figure out how to save what I have. I'm thinking of covering up the bleed-over with some sort of colored decorative rope. I can't just toss it. Gotta figure out something. 

How about a picture so we can see how it looks.

[OCtoolguy]

4 minutes ago, Dave Monk said:

How about a picture so we can see how it looks.

Here ya go. It's a mess.

 

[preprius]

Ray,

yep pictures proove it happened.

Is there a possibility of unglueing, heat gun,  acetone?  remove 2 layers , replace stained, then reglue?

easy way out is stain or paint every other layer dark brown or black.  might be ok. 

Me.

Mark Eason

[rjweb]

Ray, that's a shame, because the project looks nice, RJ

[OCtoolguy]

39 minutes ago, preprius said:

Ray,

yep pictures proove it happened.

Is there a possibility of unglueing, heat gun,  acetone?  remove 2 layers , replace stained, then reglue?

easy way out is stain or paint every other layer dark brown or black.  might be ok. 

Me.

Mark Eason

I may give that a try Mark. It's both the top and bottom that will have to come apart. I've never "unglued" anything before. This time I used Weldwood so I'm not sure how to go about that. Maybe someone can chime in with a "how-to" and I'll give it a try.

 

[Dave Monk]

Wow! That totally sucks.  I sure can't give you any advise.