Considering the shorter throat scroll saws and seeking suggestions please.

[Tallbald]

Just beginning my scrolling journey but as I have done for decades with my journeys, I'm already looking toward the future. It appears to me that there is a large price jump when going from an 18 inch throat to the 21 or 22 inch throat size. I am confident about what sorts of scrollwork I expect and am interested in doing and the smaller , 18 inch size models fit my needs and shop size.

Specifically, I've been studying the Jet 18 inch and the King Industrial 18 inch. Are there others I'm not aware of in that price category and size please? I'll say, the Jet upper blade holding system does sound attractive.

Thank you .

Don

Edited November 2, 2022 by Tallbald

[OCtoolguy]

The best "small" saw you can buy is the Hegner. If you can find one of the 14" used, that would be my suggestion. I say that because I'm not sure they still offer that size anymore. From that point, it's 18" or larger. I have a 16" Excalibur and love it. I also have a 21"  and an 18" Hegner. I'd not part with any of them. size is not as important as quality of build.  They are all very heavy saws so portability is tough no matter which one you buy.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by OCtoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

I think the King is a 16" saw not a 18" unless they made a new one that I'm not aware of yet.. The King is the same thing as the old excalibur.. I don't know the prices anymore but I think I would go with it over the Jet myself.. I'm not sure where you get parts for a Jet saw, but I know the King being the same as a Excalibur and Seyco.com sells Excalibur parts.

I've heard Jet saws have issues with the upper clamp mechanism jamming up IF you're not well informed about how to adjust them. I like the idea of the clamping system but I see many folks buying the Pegas chucks and pitching the Jet ones in the trash so.. at least you do have that option if the clamps don't work as well as you hoped.  Also some of the Jets had issues with the reverse tooth blades.. table sits too high and the reverse teeth aren't utilized as they should be.. Maybe this has been corrected by now I don't know. 

IF price is your concern you might look for used high end saws like Ray mentioned the Hegner.. If space is an issue and you're using the stand made for the saw, they use the same stand for the 16" and the 21" saws so you really aren't saving much if any space.. I think the Hegner has a pretty compact stand.. New ones aren't very cheap though. 

 

Edit: Black Friday is just around the corner.. Jet and many others will likely be discounting prices..

Edited November 3, 2022 by kmmcrafts

[OCtoolguy]

I would not be buying a NEW Hegner. I see many good used ones. Depending on where you are located.

[Tallbald]

Thanks to you all. I've admired the Hegner saws since the mid 1980's. Maybe in the old Garrett Wade catalogs(?) and the ads in Fine Woodworking.. But truthfully the beautiful Hegners are outside my price range. The used ones I see online are not complete or look as if they've been ridden hard and put up wet.  

So that's Hegner, King and Jet brands in the smaller throat depth arena (and thanks for the size correction KMMCrafts). It sort of comes down to the last two for me then. Living on retirement and a shrinking nest egg, I'll be saving for a while and liquidating some other hobby items to help fund any other new saw. Trying to learn peaks and pitfalls of some of the different brands does take time but I enjoy the search if I believe there's a good answer. I've learned from study that there can be QA issues when some models and brands start being made elsewhere. Some have electronic variable speed bugs. Many things seem to be sort of a planned gamble and give/take on features.

I forgot about Black Friday Sales. Hadn't considered the possibilities of sales for that. Hopefully I can locate a deal.

Thank you each again. Don

 

[OCtoolguy]

@Tallbald, first I ask your location. Then I want to say this. Regarding used Hegner saws, they may look bad but they don't wear out. They are built like tanks and require very little maintenance. So with that said, there are at least 6 of them near me in So. Cal. One is $600 and it is a jewel and 100% complete. Even has a cover. Don't be afraid of a used saw. Just do your due diligence and check them out. I have 3 saws, all bought used. I've never had a new saw. You have a large contingent of folks here with vast knowledge of all brands so ask questions and read all the past conversations regarding this subject. I hate to see anybody spend more money than necessary. Especially in this economy and being on a fixed income as most of us are. Don't be in a hurry. There's a great deal just waiting for you just around the corner.

[kmmcrafts]

I agree with Ray.. plenty of used saws out there that are high end saws like Hawk and Hegner.. older Excalibur 16" saws too.. Hawk doesn't make a small saw anymore but there is plenty of those old Hawk 12", 14", and 16" saws out there that can be had from $100 - 250.. or a good Hegner 14" saw for a little bit more.. On those older Hawk and Hegners though.. you probably want to make sure it's a variable speed saw rather than a single or 2-3 speed.. Hawk and Hegners are very easy to work on should they ever need something addressed..  

[Tallbald]

Thanks again for the suggestions and input. I myself am in Southern Kentucky, USA. About 50 miles north of Nashville, TN. On Craigslist "near " me there are several Type 2 DeWalt 788s, numerous copies of my little Wen 16 inch and same saw with different brand badges, several cast iron spring upper retraction vintage saws and some I never heard of. Same situation on Facebook Marketplace. Maybe it's a population density and regional issue. Also I would not buy without seeing the saw and hearing it run. Which right thetre limits my options I know...

I'll for sure keep my eyes and ears open, and as suggested, watch for holiday sales. Maybe I'll happen on an estate sale with a lovingly cared-for saw that would serve me proudly and well at a good price. One day, my own tools with be just that to some other fortunate woodworker!

Don

Edited November 3, 2022 by Tallbald

[OCtoolguy]

18 minutes ago, Tallbald said:

Thanks again for the suggestions and input. I myself am in Southern Kentucky, USA. About 50 miles north of Nashville, TN. On Craigslist "near " me there are several Type 2 DeWalt 788s, numerous copies of my little Wen 16 inch and same saw with different brand badges, several cast iron spring upper retraction vintage saws and some I never heard of. Same situation on Facebook Marketplace. Maybe it's a population density and regional issue. Also I would not buy without seeing the saw and hearing it run. Which right thetre limits my options I know...

I'll for sure keep my eyes and ears open, and as suggested, watch for holiday sales. Maybe I'll happen on an estate sale with a lovingly cared-for saw that would serve me proudly and well at a good price. One day, my own tools with be just that to some other fortunate woodworker!

Don

As soon as you buy a new a great deal on a used saw will pop up. So be ready for a second saw.

[kmmcrafts]

I don't know where you are in relation to this saw.. and this saw is not a small saw.. I kind of took your post as looking for a cheaper price than a small saw.. this is a 26" throat saw and is a Hawk Ultra. About half the price you was looking to spend for a new saw.. Even if you had to drive a couple hours.. Looks like new still.. not much goes wrong with the Hawks and Hegners and many parts could be had from a local hardware store. LOL

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/639933374502405?hoisted=false&ref=saved&referral_code=null

There is also another Hawk 14" saw probably closer to you but it's the single speed.. price isn't too bad at $180 It's in  Owensboro, KY and another one just like it in IN for $100 but that would be a bit of a drive. 

A Hegner in Nashville but it's $1500 too, LOL

I don't know how much one can dicker on price of a Hegner but I know there are tons of Hawks out there and most times they don't seem to sell super fast.. and most times you can haggle on the price and get it much cheaper than asking price.

Remember, getting close to the holidays many folks might be selling equipment they don't use much to fund the Christmas gifts.. Plus if you decide on a new saw we have Black Friday coming up.. and lots of deals on stuff. Grizzly used to offer a good price on the new DeWalt saws for most of November through to the new year.. They are decent saws too.. just don't have the bells and whistles of the Jet, Pegas type of saws..

[Eplfan2011]

It's worth looking around, I found my Hawk vs260 for a $100 cleaned it up and bought new knobs, new plastic clips for the blade holder and the retro fit blower for it. Runs and cuts like a champ for under $200.

[Tallbald]

Thank you so much. I hate to ask this, but is the RBI still being manufactured? I'm out of the loop on modern manufacturers in a lot of ways. The site I google are a mix of both older and newer and I just am a bit uncertain. Owensboro is 65 miles away. Taylorsville a bit of a drive but a day trip. Don

 

[Eplfan2011]

1 hour ago, Tallbald said:

Thank you so much. I hate to ask this, but is the RBI still being manufactured? I'm out of the loop on modern manufacturers in a lot of ways. The site I google are a mix of both older and newer and I just am a bit uncertain. Owensboro is 65 miles away. Taylorsville a bit of a drive but a day trip. Don

 

Yes a company called Bushton Manufacturing bought them.

[BadBob]

Used scroll saws are rare where I live as are wood working tools of any kind. I think it has to do with the population where you live.

[kmmcrafts]

I just thought of something... IF you're budget is the issue and you want to go with a saw sold "as new" you might also look for refurbish / reconditioned saws online.. Many of the tools I have I bought new with a "limited warranty" but they have never given me any issues.. the only issue I have had with them is the extra money in my pocket and what to buy next with it,

That being said, Bearwood is now offering refurbished Pegas saws.. you might want to look at those.. maybe give it a few weeks and see if they run any Black Friday deals on top of the discounted price.. https://www.bearwood.com/product8099.html  I'd much rather do business with Denny at Artcrafters.. but I don't think he is offering the refurbished ones.. maybe he will, might not hurt to ask him about it. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by kmmcrafts

[Hawk]

On 11/2/2022 at 7:20 PM, Tallbald said:

Just beginning my scrolling journey but as I have done for decades with my journeys, I'm already looking toward the future. It appears to me that there is a large price jump when going from an 18 inch throat to the 21 or 22 inch throat size. I am confident about what sorts of scrollwork I expect and am interested in doing and the smaller , 18 inch size models fit my needs and shop size.

Specifically, I've been studying the Jet 18 inch and the King Industrial 18 inch. Are there others I'm not aware of in that price category and size please? I'll say, the Jet upper blade holding system does sound attractive.

Thank you .

Don

I have the King 16" and love it. Almost no vibration when you tune it, I had a ton of help from the folks here setting it up for optimal running. Blade changes are quick and easy. You won't be disappointed. 

Chris

[Tallbald]

I'd like to thank you each and all again for the time you took in sharing your thoughts and observations. Right now I have my little Wen 3923 and it's a great tool for learning so many scrolling processes. I also have received two books with scrolling exercises and technique tips. Poring through them gets my brain's creative juices flowing and I'm excited at a depth I've not been at since beginning to learn wood turning in the early 90's, book in hand. 

I'll be watching the holiday sales brochures that are published. And following any leads that come my way. perhaps there's an RBI, a Jet, a Hegner, King or Pegas out there with my name on it. Time will tell'

Don

Edited November 5, 2022 by Tallbald

[OCtoolguy]

4 hours ago, Tallbald said:

I'd like to thank you each and all again for the time you took in sharing your thoughts and observations. Right now I have my little Wen 3923 and it's a great tool for learning so many scrolling processes. I also have received two books with scrolling exercises and technique tips. Poring through them gets my brain's creative juices flowing and I'm excited at a depth I've not been at since beginning to learn wood turning in the early 90's, book in hand. 

I'll be watching the holiday sales brochures that are published. And following any leads that come my way. perhaps there's an RBI, a Jet, a Hegner, King or Pegas out there with my name on it. Time will tell'

Don

Just be aware that the great name of Excalibur has been perverted by China. DO NOT buy an Excalibur if it's a Chinese saw. Taiwan/green saws are great. 

[rash_powder]

I have a 16" Craftsman scrollsaw from 10ish years ago.  Its what I started out with; and I have to say that for the things I have been cutting it worked quite well.  I currently use my Hegner for all my work, but the Craftsman would absolutely do it just as well as the Hegner.  

Personally, I believe that using the lesser quality tools isn't a bad thing.  You learn to work around and accomodate their inadequacies, which when you get better equipment makes your work that much easier and better since you have learned 'tricks'.  I also must add that on account of I cannot afford higher-end modern tools I use a lot of 'classic' tools, like braces and bench planes.  Tinkering and fiddling is a necessity with this older stuff and I enjoy it so it all works for me.  I've had to replace the brushes on the Craftsman motor as the originals were not installed correctly; and the speed control potentiometer on the Hegner as it had gotten dirty internally.  Everything will need maintenance.   

Regardless of which of those saws you choose they will serve you well.  Have fun!

[Tallbald]

Honestly I will be hoping mostly for the smaller 18 inch Jet or 16 inch King. Either would be plenty large enough capacity to meet all my needs. The Jet for me would seem to have a more accessible repair network.  I see the need for a larger saw for some artists, but for me, the larger saw would be akin to driving a dump truck to the grocery for bread and milk. More than I need. And unfortunately, I have yet to find a comprehensive video review of either of these smaller saws. 

Some here suggest that Black Friday Sales may offer some lower prices this season. Where would Jet advertise such a sale?

Thank you again and as always.

Don

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, Tallbald said:

Honestly I will be hoping mostly for the smaller 18 inch Jet or 16 inch King. Either would be plenty large enough capacity to meet all my needs. The Jet for me would seem to have a more accessible repair network.  I see the need for a larger saw for some artists, but for me, the larger saw would be akin to driving a dump truck to the grocery for bread and milk. More than I need. And unfortunately, I have yet to find a comprehensive video review of either of these smaller saws. 

Some here suggest that Black Friday Sales may offer some lower prices this season. Where would Jet advertise such a sale?

Thank you again and as always.

Don

Steve Good reviewed the Jet ( I believe it was the 22" model but basically same saw but a bit larger) on his blog a couple maybe 3-4 years ago? 

I believe Jet sets their prices and the distributors have to sell them at Jets prices so anywhere local or online that sells Jet scroll saws should have them or can order you one so long as Jet is running their sale.. They typically run a percentage off all Jet tools type sale.. I've seen it before on the Woodcraft website.. I have a local family run lumber store that sells Jet tools so that is where I would go if I were going with a Jet.. I like the idea of the upper dual action blade clamp design.. but I have heard of issues with it jamming if you clamp it and it's not adjusted properly for that size blade etc.. I don't know and only heard of a couple complaints.. Anyway, I've eyeballed that 18" saw for a few years now.. 

Your analogy of the dump truck can play the other way too... like driving a ford pinto to the gravel yard to get 7 yard of stone.. LOL  I do agree though I have 2 Hawk 26" saws and a Excalibur 21" saw..... There have "occasionally" been maybe 10 times in the last 15 years that I actually needed more than the 21" saw.. However.. I did used to have a Delta SS350 16" saw that I quite often had to go over to the deWalt 20" saw because the 16 wasn't quite large enough to do the cut.. Bigger projects sometimes sneak into your to do list and it really sucks to try to haul gravel in that ford pinto..  

 

Edit: Maybe I'm wrong, I see most places selling the 18" Jet for around $850.. Home Depot has is at $709.. That's not a bad deal.. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by kmmcrafts