Popular Post John B Posted December 14, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 14, 2022 I wouldn't put myself in an artist's shoes, but a craft's man, yep. Moocifer Joe, Blaughn, stoney and 16 others 17 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaughn Posted December 14, 2022 Report Share Posted December 14, 2022 A scrollsaw artist creates sawdust, chips and creates spaces in wood that delight the eye. A CNC/Laser cutter - a machine creates smoke and charcoal that delight the eye. A big difference. Jim McDonald, John B, scrollingforsanity and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red river Posted December 15, 2022 Report Share Posted December 15, 2022 Amen to the craftmanship aspect of the endeavor. I like my 40-694. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBob Posted December 15, 2022 Report Share Posted December 15, 2022 I made an OCR version: ==================== What is the difference between Scrollsawing and CNC/Laser Cutting? Every cut done on a scrollsaw is unique. It's impossible to cut something exactly the same on a scrollsaw. Scrollsawers are craftsman. Scrollsawing is like painting a picture. It takes years to lean the craft of scrollsawing, many hours of teaching your body the hand to eye co-ordination to push the timber through the blade to get exactly the cut that is required, hours of frustration, and moments of joy when you see the completed piece you have made. Each and every piece made by a scrollsaw craftsman has a little piece of their soul in it. CNC or Laser cutting is like printing a picture. CNC or Laser Cutting is a carbon copy... over and over again. It may look perfect - but it doesn't have a soul. CNC or Laser cut pieces are not handmade. The machines are 'working' the wood and the person is working a computer. Just because you print a picture of the Mona Lisa from your computer it doesn't make you DaVinci. When you buy something produced by CNC or Laser Cutter operator you are buying a mass produced item that only requires a basic knowledge of computer programming to make - the same as any item you may have purchased from IKEA. If you want to purchase a truly unique piece of artwork made by a true craftsman - buy something that has been created by a Scrollsaw Artist. Rolf, stoney, NC Scroller and 3 others 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millwab Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 Copied this from the Gwinnett Woodworkers Association for my educational display at our county fair. Thought it summed it up pretty well … John B, bobscroll, scrollingforsanity and 6 others 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry walters Posted December 16, 2022 Report Share Posted December 16, 2022 BadBob and Millwab, you have a way with words. You both hit the nail on the head. OCtoolguy and scrollingforsanity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted December 29, 2022 Report Share Posted December 29, 2022 I like Millwabs best because it's not singling out any particular machine user. A lot of different believes on the CNC and Laser machines and many scroll sawers portray them as a inferior machine or something.. I find just as much fun and get the same gratification from the projects I make with the machines as I do with the scroll saw. Scroll sawers can and do " production work " as well.. at least I do.. stack cutting is running production and a "good" sawer can out produce a single laser or CNC machine.. From a hobby standpoint I would rather have and use a scroll saw than a CNC/Laser.. as a business I like the ability to be able to use all three machines as they all do "different" products.. I think on some projects the charred edges gives the project more contrast and actually looks better than the scrolled piece. Just a matter of ones opinion I know.. I've seen scrollers staining and painting edges on some projects to achieve that charred look too. As for customers.. yeah some are shocked when they realize you made something freehand cutting.. that said I have never had any customer really care how a item was made.. they like the item and want to buy it without a care in the world how it was made really.. Most all my lasered ornaments are hand painted with details so a fair amount of "hands-on" still for me and the products I offer.. and I still get that "Wow" factor from the hand painted portion sample photos of my hand painted ornaments below. The machines are able to enhance and make a project better than just a scroll saw as in the ornaments sample below I add words around the ornament with the laser.. These ornaments can and have been made on the scroll saw too but you just can't achieve the added touches with those words or personalizing them or the details by using just a scroll saw. I offered these last year as scroll sawn ones.. sold a few but then this year added the words and details with the laser and a few customers that bought last year loved the details so much they bought the same ornament and discarded the old one.. Not sure if anyone noticed I've not been on the village lately but I've been swamped with laser work doing many of my ornaments with the added touches and personalizations.. laser been running dang near 17 hours a day and was easy to have one of my kids watch over it while I did some other things.. This is good for my business standpoint and I get a great deal of satisfaction from making exactly what the customers want.. It's not just a production mode and like printing a paper that it's made out to be by some.. I also get a great deal of satisfaction from designing a pattern.. much like the designers do here for your scroll sawn patterns.. so that in itself is gratifying to do and then set up the machine and watch the project come to life so there again there is more gratification to a CNC/Laser made items than what it's made out to be.. for me anyway.. some of you have never run one of these machines and you have no idea if you'd get that satisfaction from it or not.. same with designing and making your own patterns.. most don't do it because they don't know how to do it.. if they tried and accomplish a pattern they'd get some gratification from that just the same. Most CNC/Laser guys can't go out today and buy a scroll saw and start efficiently making things tomorrow to sell, as some of the signs posted above implies.. as is with the scroll saw guys can't go out and buy a CNC/Laser and efficiently start making things to sell tomorrow.. they both take a level of experience to do.. Having all three machines opens up a whole new opportunity for my business.. As Milwabs sign says.. I have heart and sole into making the customers dream project come to life whether that is from the CNC/Laser/Scroll saw.. my satisfactions comes from working with the customer to see what I can do for "them"... maybe that's why I thrive in what I do.. scrollingforsanity, Rolf and OCtoolguy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBob Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Lasers/CNC are just tools. OCtoolguy and Rolf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) I love those ornaments Kevin! Out of desperation I broke a cardinal rule and copied a design I found on the web. We were invited to the neighbors house for Christmas dinner and I needed a special gift. They are avid campers. So I found this image made a pattern then laser engraved it. The burn lines helped with paint bleed . I also incorporated their graphics. I then cut a single layer of 1/8 bb (pegas 28TPI skip tooth)on the scroll saw, then painted. Still had a bit of paint bleed. Edited December 30, 2022 by Rolf barb.j.enders, kmmcrafts, OCtoolguy and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankEV Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rolf said: ....Still had a bit of paint bleed. If you apply a light coat of clear spray sealer, polycrylic or even lacquer prior to painting, you can eliminate paint bleed. Another way is to prime the areas to be painted with a acrylic Gesso. This is easier to do when painting a backer. Edited December 30, 2022 by FrankEV Gene Howe, OCtoolguy, Scrappile and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjweb Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Kevin your ornaments are beautiful, what size laser do you have, RJ OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 12 hours ago, Rolf said: I love those ornaments Kevin! Out of desperation I broke a cardinal rule and copied a design I found on the web. We were invited to the neighbors house for Christmas dinner and I needed a special gift. They are avid campers. So I found this image made a pattern then laser engraved it. The burn lines helped with paint bleed . I also incorporated their graphics. I then cut a single layer of 1/8 bb (pegas 28TPI skip tooth)on the scroll saw, then painted. Still had a bit of paint bleed. Like that ornament, I did one similar for my brother but had a 5th wheel trailer and their favorite park instead of their names. The laser lines do help a lot with paint bleeding. That is how I do mine.. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 10 hours ago, FrankEV said: If you apply a light coat of clear spray sealer, polycrylic or even lacquer prior to painting, you can eliminate paint bleed. Another way is to prime the areas to be painted with a acrylic Gesso. This is easier to do when painting a backer. I've heard that works good but does it affect the glue strength for layered ornaments? I haven't tried that yet however I haven't had much trouble with bleeding either since I was using the laser to burn the lines. OCtoolguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 10 hours ago, rjweb said: Kevin your ornaments are beautiful, what size laser do you have, RJ The laser is just a cheap 40watt Co2 laser with only a 8 x 11 work table. It's called a K-40.. cost me about $300 back in 2017.. I think they may be around $450 now days.. Lot of fun to mess with. OCtoolguy and scrollingforsanity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 I've got this great new business plan. Purchase these, wack a bit of paint on them, x the price by 60 and sell them as "Hand Made/painted" At .40c each it's sure to be a winner. Wooden Ornaments scrollingforsanity, Gene Howe and OCtoolguy 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, John B said: I've got this great new business plan. Purchase these, wack a bit of paint on them, x the price by 60 and sell them as "Hand Made/painted" At .40c each it's sure to be a winner. Wooden Ornaments That's actually not a bad idea if they make a sellable design.. and if there was room to engrave / personalize it.. I personally like to make my product myself.. but there is a large market for just making bulk stuff.. especially in the cutting board, utensil type things.. a lot of laser guys do not even make the product they sell but rather just add graphics to a mass produced item. I would say a large amount of cutting boards are not made by the seller the seller just personalizes them with a monogram or ?.. and that would be a market I couldn't get into and compete in.. because I would want to make the board myself.. and many of these folks sell them cheaper than I could / would make a plain board for let alone personalize it.. That said you have to find a niche that these type of folks aren't / can't do.. which would be CNC'ing them as "inlayed" cutting boards and that would get a edge on the competition because you can market it better too.. after all the thin laser engraving will eventually be cut away from using the board for the intended use over time. A inlaid board you can make the inlay as thick as the board itself and even go all the way through to the bottom side so that graphic is always going to be there no matter how much you use the board. You see, CNC doesn't mean it has to be mass produced.. I think there is a fair amount of hands on with this type of project.. and this is making a "quality board" from start to finish.. as opposed to a person buying bulk boards and just adding laser engraving on them. Same goes for the laser.. I'm not mass producing items and selling them as handmade.. my ornaments are in a completely different category as my scroll sawn ornaments.. they are listed as laser cut/engraved and hand painted. Can I go the mass production route and just sit and make the same item all day long with a CNC/Laser? Sure can and that opportunity is there if I needed / wanted it.. I get more satisfaction making that personalized 1 - 20 off type items and get paid extra for doing it because there is a large market for it and not many offering personalized because they want to do that mass production. Check this inlay cutting board making video.. consider it enough hands on to be handmade or no? Just curious what others think.. More hands on than the folks buying bulk boards and just engraving them? Edited December 31, 2022 by kmmcrafts Rolf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 21 hours ago, FrankEV said: If you apply a light coat of clear spray sealer, polycrylic or even lacquer prior to painting, you can eliminate paint bleed. Another way is to prime the areas to be painted with a acrylic Gesso. This is easier to do when painting a backer. I usually do but was in a hurry and took a shortcut. I usually use the Zinser sanding sealer and on occasion the the acrylic sealer on painted ornaments. John B and FrankEV 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) Thoughts on this cutting board with many types of wood for a neat graphic.. Mass produced product? Not hands on at all? Just push a button and go watch TV while the machine does the work? Edited December 31, 2022 by kmmcrafts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 True meaning of handmade barb.j.enders, Moocifer Joe, scrollingforsanity and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moocifer Joe Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 On 12/31/2022 at 8:36 AM, kmmcrafts said: Thoughts on this cutting board with many types of wood for a neat graphic.. Mass produced product? Not hands on at all? Just push a button and go watch TV while the machine does the work? I wouldn't call it mass produced but maybe manufactured. Still a lot of knowledge and setup goes into it. It's cool and has It's place, but not in the craftsman area. Just my opinion of course. kmmcrafts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmmcrafts Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, Moocifer Joe said: I wouldn't call it mass produced but maybe manufactured. Still a lot of knowledge and setup goes into it. It's cool and has It's place, but not in the craftsman area. Just my opinion of course. I like to see all the various opinions of the meaning of handmade and where the products made from these machines fit in from other woodworkers/crafters opinions etc.. and for the most part I respect their opinions until one says that it's just like printing a photo or basically saying no skill needed.. With the CNC/Laser world there is so much behind the scenes processes left out of the videos.. it seems as many folks really believe it's just printing a picture easy. The sad part is they show that intelligence by displaying these silly signs at their shows saying just that, LOL And the sad thing is many believe those statements and go out and spend big money for a machine only to find they don't have the skill set to actually run it.. a lot of them for sale on the CNC/Laser groups lightly used saying they are harder to run than expected and they are not interested in learning the process.. Guess it's more skill than they thought. IF one wants to emphasize their products as "handmade" why do they feel the need to degrade upon another form of woodwork ( CNC/Laser) to accomplish that? Why not just have the sign state handmade? Why not have a laptop showing a video loop of you doing the work showing handmade? OCtoolguy, Rolf and John B 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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