Is there a Hegner in my future?

[kmmcrafts]

39 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

What’s the difference between a RBI 220 and 226. 

Basically size.. a 220 is a 20" throat and the 226 is a 26" throat. Also usually they incorporate VS for variable speed as well as having a 220-3 which is a 3 speed changed via step pulleys. Some are just single speed as in plain old 220 or 226 etc. They never really distinguished the difference in a regular old round clamp saw and a Ultra.. so that is hard to know without seeing the lower clamp style or lower arm. The G4 came out which is basically the same thing as the new BM series with some minor upgrades to the BM series. Up until G4 and later saws they was only bottom feed saws and the lower arm set back behind the angle mechanism.. G4 and later saws had the arm come through the angle part and also had variable blade aggression adjustment. Ultras only had two position adjustment, rear position for cutting thick wood and the front position more straight up down less aggressive blade for thin material and fine detail work.     

[BadBob]

46 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

G4 and later saws had the arm come through the angle part and also had variable blade aggression adjustment.

Is there an easy way to identify a G4 saw from a photo?

 

[OCtoolguy]

3 hours ago, Gonzo said:

What’s the difference between a RBI 220 and 226. 

6 inches of throat depth.

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, BadBob said:

Is there an easy way to identify a G4 saw from a photo?

 

Yes, they are identified in a couple of ways. The most obvious is the table has a more streamlined look. All the others have a squared off cut to the perimeter. There is a G4 badge on the sides of the upper mechanism and some red trim. You'll know it's a G4 right away.

[BadBob]

1 minute ago, OCtoolguy said:

Yes, they are identified in a couple of ways. The most obvious is the table has a more streamlined look. All the others have a squared off cut to the perimeter. There is a G4 badge on the sides of the upper mechanism and some red trim. You'll know it's a G4 right away.

Thanks, I don't think I have ever seen a G4.

 

[Scrappile]

Are all G-4 saws like this or are all newer saws after the G-4 have the same G-4 fearures?

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Scrappile

[OCtoolguy]

22 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Are all G-4 saws like this or are all newer saws after the G-4 have the same G-4 fearures?

 

 

Not sure but I think all G4's look alike. The BM saw has it's own badge but not all that different otherwise. It would be neat to see a BM 20 inch saw. I'd probably buy one if they made one. I liked my 226 Ultra but the footprint was just too big.

Edited February 5, 2023 by OCtoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

I might be wrong but I think some of the G4 saws didn't have the "painted uprights" with the aluminum accents. I believe some was just all aluminum and actually look like all the other saws other than the table was more teardrop shaped. 

The BM series have all the same features I think.. There was some minor cosmetic differences with the tension lever which I think the G4 has a nicer lever for doing top feeding. I can take some specific photos of my BM -26 if someone wants a specific view of something. All the BM series I have seen was all just polished aluminum rather than the painted red uprights etc. like I think "some" of the G4 were too. 

I contemplated getting the 20" when I bought the new saw and in some ways wish I would have since I have the 226 Ultra as well.. I really liked the size of my 220VS and think I'd like a 220 Ultra or BM series.  I'm not sure how but the BM-26 ( I think ) is slightly shorter footprint than my Ultra. Maybe something to do with the blade coming out in front of the angle mechanism.  

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I might be wrong but I think some of the G4 saws didn't have the "painted uprights" with the aluminum accents. I believe some was just all aluminum and actually look like all the other saws other than the table was more teardrop shaped. 

The BM series have all the same features I think.. There was some minor cosmetic differences with the tension lever which I think the G4 has a nicer lever for doing top feeding. I can take some specific photos of my BM -26 if someone wants a specific view of something. All the BM series I have seen was all just polished aluminum rather than the painted red uprights etc. like I think "some" of the G4 were too. 

I contemplated getting the 20" when I bought the new saw and in some ways wish I would have since I have the 226 Ultra as well.. I really liked the size of my 220VS and think I'd like a 220 Ultra or BM series.  I'm not sure how but the BM-26 ( I think ) is slightly shorter footprint than my Ultra. Maybe something to do with the blade coming out in front of the angle mechanism.  

So, do they make a 20 inch BM series saw?

 

[Gonzo]

So I finally get a response on FB about an RBI ultra 220. Woman’s husband died and she’s moving. I go check it out and the V piece to adjust the tension in back is missing.  So that was a bummer, as I couldn’t really keep the tension tight.
Is it normal to have the variable speed lag? 
Kevin had a comment earlier that there is a learning curve. Holy crap, is there ever!  Trying to put a blade in the blade holder, and then putting the bottom blade holder around and behind the trunion  was quite the challenge. 
Anyways, I told the woman’s son my concerns.  He said, “fine, I’ll scrap it out”. Kind of ticked me off. Went upstairs and told the woman thanks but no thanks.  
That new Hegner just might be in the cards.
I do have to laugh though, it’s a $1900 swing.  A guy can buy one hell of a slab of walnut for that price. Big big smile 
 

[OCtoolguy]

7 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

So I finally get a response on FB about an RBI ultra 220. Woman’s husband died and she’s moving. I go check it out and the V piece to adjust the tension in back is missing.  So that was a bummer, as I couldn’t really keep the tension tight.
Is it normal to have the variable speed lag? 
Kevin had a comment earlier that there is a learning curve. Holy crap, is there ever!  Trying to put a blade in the blade holder, and then putting the bottom blade holder around and behind the trunion  was quite the challenge. 
Anyways, I told the woman’s son my concerns.  He said, “fine, I’ll scrap it out”. Kind of ticked me off. Went upstairs and told the woman thanks but no thanks.  
That new Hegner just might be in the cards.
I do have to laugh though, it’s a $1900 swing.  A guy can buy one hell of a slab of walnut for that price. Big big smile 
 

I wouldn't walk away just yet. That piece is not an expensive part and may have just gotten lost somewhere in the fray. Was the nylon washer still there? Were the lower blade clamps square or round? If they are going to "scrap it", I'd go back and offer them a C note or ??? and see if you can buy it. That saw is not a throw-away by any means. Without the V-piece you wouldn't have even been able to properly tension it so you weren't able to give it a fair test drive. Go back and buy that saw!

Edit: I just looked at all the pics of that saw in the Craigslist ad and the V block is there in the picture but it is turned sideways and not seated down into the V groove in the arm. I don't see anything missing.

Edited February 6, 2023 by OCtoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

36 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

So, do they make a 20 inch BM series saw?

 

Yeah they have a 20" BM series.. the one I've never heard of is a G4 in a 20".. probably have them but I've never seen or heard of one. When they came out with the BM series they made a 16" , 20" , and the 26.. the 16" was really only a prototype that only a few were made and they dropped it..  

[Gonzo]

2 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

I wouldn't walk away just yet. That piece is not an expensive part and may have just gotten lost somewhere in the fray. Was the nylon washer still there? Were the lower blade clamps square or round? If they are going to "scrap it", I'd go back and offer them a C note or ??? and see if you can buy it. That saw is not a throw-away by any means. Without the V-piece you wouldn't have even been able to properly tension it so you weren't able to give it a fair test drive. Go back and buy that saw!

Lower blade clamps are square. 
Nope, no nylon washer.  
What about the lag time on the variable speed?

[OCtoolguy]

2 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Yeah they have a 20" BM series.. the one I've never heard of is a G4 in a 20".. probably have them but I've never seen or heard of one. When they came out with the BM series they made a 16" , 20" , and the 26.. the 16" was really only a prototype that only a few were made and they dropped it..  

Thanks Kevin. That's what I was talking about. The G series in a 20". I did see that they make a 20" in the BM series.

 

[OCtoolguy]

Just now, Gonzo said:

Lower blade clamps are square. 
Nope, no nylon washer.  
What about the lag time on the variable speed?

Ok, it's got the good clamps. The nylon washer is a .10 cent item. As for the lag time, if I recall when I had mine, it had a sort of soft start and didn't jump into speed instantly. That's a good thing. Something to just get used to. From what I could see in the pics, that saw is a jewel and there is nothing missing. Maybe just not in proper alignment. It's a great deal on a great saw. I bought mine for less but it had sat for 20 years and had a bit of rust on it. The guy who had it just wanted it gone. When I sold it a few months later, I got $550 for it. All I did was clean it up and polish the table. The little that I used it, I liked it a lot but it just was too big for my 9 x 13 shop and I also had 2 other saws. If it were me, I'd go back and buy that saw. As Kevin said, it will just take a while to figure out all it's quirks.

 

.

[kmmcrafts]

15 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

So I finally get a response on FB about an RBI ultra 220. Woman’s husband died and she’s moving. I go check it out and the V piece to adjust the tension in back is missing.  So that was a bummer, as I couldn’t really keep the tension tight.
Is it normal to have the variable speed lag? 
Kevin had a comment earlier that there is a learning curve. Holy crap, is there ever!  Trying to put a blade in the blade holder, and then putting the bottom blade holder around and behind the trunion  was quite the challenge. 
Anyways, I told the woman’s son my concerns.  He said, “fine, I’ll scrap it out”. Kind of ticked me off. Went upstairs and told the woman thanks but no thanks.  
That new Hegner just might be in the cards.
I do have to laugh though, it’s a $1900 swing.  A guy can buy one hell of a slab of walnut for that price. Big big smile 
 

That variable speed lag is normal and I wish my new BM series had that.. When you have a instant on / speed at start up on those very long arms of those big saws ( especially the 26" ) that is a lot of strain on saw blades.. 

A lot of folks either love or hate to have to reach around the angle mechanism to install the blade.. I like it either way but I really do like having the sawdust mess land on top of the saw stand back there rather than on my lap.. I prefer that set up over the BM series.. and after a few weeks it becomes second nature to install the blade.. Thankfully it's only like that to change a blade rather than every time you move to a different hole.. that would be different then, LOL

The wedge isn't pricey really and usually readily available.. the nylon washer can be had at a hardware store for around $0.40..  

[kmmcrafts]

So, just to point out something.. I think the reason Hawk and Hegners have such a learning curve to mount the blades is because of the saw design.. The upper arms on these are not fixed to the motor and the lower arm like they are on most other saws.. If you break a blade on a Hawk or Hegner and it takes you a few second to get the power shut down.. the upper arm moves independent.. so breaking a blade means only the lower arm is powered still.. breaking a blade makes the upper arm ( being they are spring loaded ) pop up and out of the way.. The only thing that "powers" the upper arm is the blade being connected to the lower " powered arm ".. THIS is why blade tension is so critical on these type of saws.. 

Both the Hawk and Hegner are picky about having the blade exactly inserted and tensioned.. and why I say there is a learning curve that takes time to get the hang of, especially after being used to deWalt, excalibur pegas type saws.. Those saws if you break a blade the upper and lower arms are still connected to the motor and those short little arms at the front of the saw are pretty forgiving if tension isn't "perfect"  

[kmmcrafts]

I'm not even sure how you could run it without the wedge?   How was you able to even put a blade in it..

That wedge is only $9 https://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/wedge-pivot/

The washer is $1.25 from Bushton https://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/nylon-tension-washer/  about half that at the local hardware as it's nothing special to Hawk just a plain old nylon washer.. 

[BadBob]

8 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Those saws if you break a blade the upper and lower arms are still connected to the motor and those short little arms at the front of the saw are pretty forgiving if tension isn't "perfect"  

I have cut with my EX-21 without the blade tensioned. It acted a little odd but it still worked.

 

 

[kmmcrafts]

1 minute ago, BadBob said:

I have cut with my EX-21 without the blade tensioned. It acted a little odd but it still worked.

 

 

Yeah, not having the proper tension on a Hawk / Hegner that blade would just break.. 

[Millwab]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:01 PM, Gonzo said:

He actually wants 1400 for the Hegner.  

Matt, FWIW I was looking at the Hegner website for some parts and noticed the Multimax 18-V was on sale for $1495.

[Gonzo]

Ray, this a saw on fb marketplace than the original that I had posted. It has only one picture. 
Kevin, it was pita getting a blade set up and running. I will use that term loosely as far as getting it up and running  

Would someone please send a closeup of the back adjustment and how it’s suppose to look?

Millwab, thanks, I did see that and am still contemplating the Hegner, but I’d probably go with the package with the stand, light and quick change  

 

[Gonzo]

This is the one I’m looking at 

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Gonzo said:

Ray, this a saw on fb marketplace than the original that I had posted. It has only one picture. 
Kevin, it was pita getting a blade set up and running. I will use that term loosely as far as getting it up and running  

Would someone please send a closeup of the back adjustment and how it’s suppose to look?

Millwab, thanks, I did see that and am still contemplating the Hegner, but I’d probably go with the package with the stand, light and quick chang

 

This is a whole kit if the saw is missing several parts. https://stores.bushtonhawkstore.com/ultra-tension-rod-kit/

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by kmmcrafts

[BadBob]

2 hours ago, Gonzo said:

This is the one I’m looking at 

That looks like the tension rod on the table.