First Cutting On The Hegner

[kmmcrafts]

So this saw is pretty nice but I think it’s going to be too expensive for me to use. Only took 3 missing blade clamps to finish this thing.

The first time I broke a blade and the thing went flying. I looked everywhere for it even on my hands and knees. Then I went to go get a drink and the clamp was laying 15 ft away in the middle of the shop. 
 

Anyway, I started with 4 clamps this morning and now have just one left. I suspect they went under my workbench and I’m not moving it to find out as it’s heavy without all the tools inside the lower cabinet.  

[Scrollshrimp]

Another very nice trivet !

[Sycamore67]

Just go fishing with one of those extendable magnet things.

I rarely break blades on my Hegner.  What blade were you using and how thick was the material? Where did the blades break?  

Edited February 7, 2023 by Sycamore67

[scrollingforsanity]

Really nice job Kevin. Better put some magnets on the floor to catch those blade clamps. LOL

[Scrappile]

You need to make a Hegner scroll saw blade, drill bit and clamp finder.   Not hard to make and a real knee and back saver!  

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

37 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

Just go fishing with one of those extendable magnet things.

I rarely break blades on my Hegner.  What blade were you using and how thick was the material? Where did the blades break?  

It was user error as in not really knowing how to use the Hegner.. Did you know that a #5 blade will clamp into the large clamps and hold tension until you turn the saw on.. well that's where those blade holders went.. now that I'm using the correct sized holders I'm not having any issues,  Also why I'm not too worried about trying to find them.. 

What gets me is, if I break a blade on the Hawk they don't go flying into space. Hawk has a spring steel ( some are plastic ) blade holder thing to prevent that. Yes there is one on the Hegner too, but this is what gets me is. The one on the Hawk the blade holder slips right in there real easy and you'd think it'd slip out and go flying into space but they don't. On the Hegner the thing has a pretty strong spring to it and it's kinda hard to push down to even get the blade holder in there.. yet when a blade slips / breaks that holder goes into space somewhere and somehow. Boggles my mind how that gets out of there and the one on the Hawk is so loose fitted in there and I never really had one come out of there in the Hawks..

[Scrappile]

12 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

It was user error as in not really knowing how to use the Hegner.. Did you know that a #5 blade will clamp into the large clamps and hold tension until you turn the saw on.. well that's where those blade holders went.. now that I'm using the correct sized holders I'm not having any issues,  Also why I'm not too worried about trying to find them.. 

What gets me is, if I break a blade on the Hawk they don't go flying into space. Hawk has a spring steel ( some are plastic ) blade holder thing to prevent that. Yes there is one on the Hegner too, but this is what gets me is. The one on the Hawk the blade holder slips right in there real easy and you'd think it'd slip out and go flying into space but they don't. On the Hegner the thing has a pretty strong spring to it and it's kinda hard to push down to even get the blade holder in there.. yet when a blade slips / breaks that holder goes into space somewhere and somehow. Boggles my mind how that gets out of there and the one on the Hawk is so loose fitted in there and I never really had one come out of there in the Hawks..

Well I rarely break them now, but when I first got my Hegner  I did... It is mostly in the tensioning.  After a little while it became a natural feel and sound when I put a blade in.  

[Dak0ta52]

Well, I must say I'm glad I don't own a Hegner. If it were me breaking blades and having to get on my hands and knees to search for blade clamps, I'd spend most of my day trying to get up off the floor. Just got word I'm a candidate for a total knee replacement.

[Gonzo]

Ok, you guys are starting to scare me. What’s with the breaking of blades on the Hegner? On both of my EX’es, and my Dewalt 788 it’s very, very rare that I break a blade. And when I do that’s because of me being dumb. (But that goes without saying. (Big smile)

[OCtoolguy]

Just now, Gonzo said:

Ok, you guys are starting to scare me. What’s with the breaking of blades on the Hegner? On both of my EX’es, and my Dewalt 788 it’s very, very rare that I break a blade. And when I do that’s because of me being dumb. (But that goes without saying. (Big smile)

Once you learn the proper tensioning procedure, you won't break blades. Learning curve!

[Scrappile]

Well the Hegner is a high breed saw, therefore has sensitive ways.  I have friends in Low places, so it took us a while to meet in the middle.  All of which can be over come with attention and practice... Say all you want, if I can have only one scroll saw, which is what I now have it will be my hegner.  I was almost sorry when I first got my hegner.  I'll have to look up when I got it.  My memory, you know, may have been only yeaterday but I think it has been quite a bit longer.  I was somewhat disappointed.  I broke blades often.. I even let it sit a little while, like weeks and used my Excalibur.  Then I thought I can not spend that money and let it sit.. fired it up broke a couple blades and then it clicked and all went well, so well I may have other saws but I will always have my Hegner...   Glad I didn't give up and let it sit, glad I didn't sell it, very glad I still have it.  I still break some blades now and then, but I broke some blades on my DeWalt, Excalibur and my Seyco...Most often it was because I tried to get a few more cut out of a spent blade.   If you give up on your Hegner send it to me, I will see if I can tame it for you.  Oh, and come with it, is we don't get you comfortable with it we will at least have a great time trying!

Edited February 8, 2023 by Scrappile

[BadBob]

I have an older RBI Hawk. Sometime when it breaks a blade the bottom clamp will come out and go flying. I have one now that is AWOL.

 

[kmmcrafts]

Paul, That is exactly how I felt about the first Hawk I got.. except the part about spending all the money since i only paid $100 for it, LOL.. I just knew from reading that both the Hawk and Hegner are very fussy with tension.. That said, it still took me several months to get the hang of it, partly because I still had my DeWalt and once i got frustrated with sawing on the Hawk I just moved to the DeWalt.. I eventually got the hang of it and like you.. I'm so glad that I didn't give up.

From experience between the two saws, I can say without a doubt that Hawk is more picky and less forgiving if the tension isn't exactly right. I still break blades on the Hawk now and then.. but like you say.. it's usually because I'm using a blade too long and just trying to make it through the last bit of a project. 

The Hegner definitely is smoother running throughout the speed ranges.. The Hawk ( all three styles I have ) get the shakes really bad at certain speed ranges but if you go below or above that speed just slightly they smooth right out. 

I think part of the reason Hawks are more picky and have that one area on the speed where it shakes is.. these are 26" saws.. those arms are huge.. they must be like 30" from one end to the other and you get a blade way out on the end that slightest little bit of not enough tension swinging the upper arm since both arms are not powered by the motor like they are on the DW type saws.. That is a lot of stress on these tiny little blades.. That is why I think the Hegner might be a little more forgiving on the blade tension.. Then you look at the front of the rocker assemblies on a DW / EX type saw and there is a whopping what maybe 4 inches of arms there... I have accidently did a cut on my DW without even applying tension, LOL.. I knew something was weird but it worked.. You wouldn't get a Hawk / Hegner to even turn on without snapping the blade without tension.

I have seen way too many people buy new or used Hawk / Hegners and in a short amount of time say they don't like the saws and  sell them.. I may be wrong but I think they just give up on a very good saw.. It's understandable because going from a DW type saw to one of these is way different.. almost have to learn to scroll again. When people are posting about upgrading to a Hawk / Hegner I like to let them know it's different and might be difficult to learn.. Some catch on right off the bat, others don't, some give up and then go posting on these forums about how junk these saws are, LOL 

[Sycamore67]

Interesting comments about the Hegner.  I love mine and have used one for years.

The comments about blade breakage got me wondering.  I break very few blades but I cut thicker woods and typically with a #5 or rarely a #3.  I wonder if blade breakage happens more often with smaller blades.  Tension on these smaller blades is more finicky.  Also, I tend to change blades when it starts to get dull as the accuracy when cutting thick woods becomes a problem.

Mechanically, there is almost nothing to go wrong with the Hegner.  No bad bearings,no knocking sounds, no rebuilds and parts are available for old machines.  A couple drops of oil every once in awhile is all that is needed.

[kmmcrafts]

Yes smaller blades is worst than the larger ones.. especially when you get into spiral blade territory.. The long arm on the Hawks is almost impossible to go any smaller than a 2/0 blade.. If one is going to be doing a lot of 3/0 spiral blade using a DeWalt ( in my opinion ) would be the best saw.. why DW? because it has adjustable tension.. Excalibur saws don't have that... well they do sort of but it's not a very good design and not the most user friendly when working with those super small blades. 

I switched back to the Hawk BM-26 this morning to finish up another trivet and a couple things I noted was.. it's a lot easier to insert the blade into a hole because the upper arm goes up much higher than on the Hegner.. Also, the Hawk is designed to pull the upper arm down to the blade and when the arm bottoms out it is at the right position so the tension is set the same every time.. The Hegner ( unless I'm doing something wrong? ) the blade is longer and the arm will come down past the top of the blade. Now I could cut off the excess of the blade so I could just bring down the arm to position but.. It is just a minor thing and something I can get used to.. but I think those are two things that Hegner could improve upon. Another thing I like about the Hawk better is the blade aggression adjustment.. I find that the Hegner is a little more aggressive cutting which is not excessive but it's the only way the saw can be set up so if you was going to cut one very thin project you cannot adjust it to a lesser aggressive cut.. I think on the Hawk I could almost cut a sheet of paper without issue if I adjust it correctly.. the Hawk is very easy to do real fine detail work.. cutting blades of grass is one of the things that I do on the Hawk and would somewhat struggle with on the Excalibur and probably on the Hegner too.. 

My overall assessment between the two saws is, I think Hegner is probably built more solid.. not by much.. But I think the Hawk is a better saw for fine detail stuff.. and can be adjusted to do thick wood too. Don't get me wrong you can do the same with either saw or even a DeWalt can accomplish the same product.. but the one that would / could be most relaxing to sit at in my opinion doing fine detail work would be the Hawk provided you have it tuned well. My opinion might change as i get more seat time behind the Hegner.. Maybe I need more time with it and learn more about adjusting it.. So far if I was to have to sell all my saws and only keep one I would stay with the Hawk BM series.. for the type of work I do most.  

[Scrappile]

I  Bring the arm on the hegner,  push the blade into the slot then lower the arm until the blade starts bending then tighten the quik clamp. and the set the tension.  From then on I do the same and the tension is set no need to adjust it.  Sounds like pretty much as the Hawk.     I modified my Hegner so the arm goes up higher, when the blade is released.  Very easy modification, but not sure it made a great difference, helps some.

[kmmcrafts]

I need to look at the Hegner and see... I bet there is an adjustment like the Hawk has so the distance between the lower arm and the upper arm is the length of the blade.. If you adjust the Hawk correctly you just lower the upper arm down as low as it goes and then put the blade in the slot and clamp it... My Hegners upper arm will go about 1/2 - 3/4 inch past the top of the blade when I bring down the upper arm to insert the blade.. Having it adjusted like the Hawk so there is no guess work to how far down to lower the arm is what I am used to.. Even though I could easily adjust to the way it is.. it just seems like it should be lower it all the way and insert the blade and clamp it.  As it's set up now I end up lowering it down onto the blade and bending the blade then I go to raise it up and go too high to clamp it so I feel like I'm constantly fiddling with it to get it clamped.. I bet there is adjustment on the rod at the back so the arm can't come down so far like on my Hawk. 

[Scrappile]

Like other things do it a few times you get use to it and it is second nature.  I do not even think about it any more.   I clamp while it is bending the blade,  the top of the blade is at the top of the clamp.   You are making it too difficult!

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

I need to look at the Hegner and see... I bet there is an adjustment like the Hawk has so the distance between the lower arm and the upper arm is the length of the blade.. If you adjust the Hawk correctly you just lower the upper arm down as low as it goes and then put the blade in the slot and clamp it... My Hegners upper arm will go about 1/2 - 3/4 inch past the top of the blade when I bring down the upper arm to insert the blade.. Having it adjusted like the Hawk so there is no guess work to how far down to lower the arm is what I am used to.. Even though I could easily adjust to the way it is.. it just seems like it should be lower it all the way and insert the blade and clamp it.  As it's set up now I end up lowering it down onto the blade and bending the blade then I go to raise it up and go too high to clamp it so I feel like I'm constantly fiddling with it to get it clamped.. I bet there is adjustment on the rod at the back so the arm can't come down so far like on my Hawk. 

Right on Kevin. Adjust the arm height at rear with tension knob just like Ex. Did you watch any of the Hegner videos? If not, do it. You will learn stuff. I did.

[kmmcrafts]

5 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

Right on Kevin. Adjust the arm height at rear with tension knob just like Ex. Did you watch any of the Hegner videos? If not, do it. You will learn stuff. I did.

Well that doesn't work the way I think it should.. If I turn that knob at the back so the arm is adjusted at approximately the right height to where the blade should slide right into the clamp then put tension on the blade it's too tight of a blade according to the video I watched, The video says to achieve proper tension turn ( loosen ) the knob until there is play in the rod and then tighten it just until there is some tension on the rod, then turn it 1/3 of a turn.. and up to 2 full turns more on larger blades if needed.. If I turn that so the arm is at the right height for the blade then tension it.. takes about 5 turns in order to get that slack in the rod at the back.. so doing that makes the blade about 3 turns over tighten..

On the Hawk they have if figured out to where you can change the distance between the upper and lower arms so you can adjust the top arm to bottom out at the right length of blade.. then set your tenson and it'll be the same every time you put in a new blade.. Unless of coarse you get one of those darn Pegas blades that has that extra little tip on the end sometimes.. 

At any rate it's not a big deal I guess to just bottom out the clamp onto the blade as Paul mentioned.. that's what I had been doing.. The Hawk just spoiled me I guess with all its adjustments.. I don't have to think about lowering the arm to a certain position and clamping the blade.. I just lower it all the way then insert the blade & clamp.

[OCtoolguy]

I guess I'll have to go out and mess with my saw. I haven't touched anything in my shop in weeks. I'm not a fan of cold weather and it's been too darned cold here. It's starting to warm up though so maybe tomorrow I'll venture out.

 

[Scrappile]

47 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

I guess I'll have to go out and mess with my saw. I haven't touched anything in my shop in weeks. I'm not a fan of cold weather and it's been too darned cold here. It's starting to warm up though so maybe tomorrow I'll venture out.

 

What?  It got all the way down to the 50°s!

 

[Dave Monk]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Well that doesn't work the way I think it should.. If I turn that knob at the back so the arm is adjusted at approximately the right height to where the blade should slide right into the clamp then put tension on the blade it's too tight of a blade according to the video I watched, The video says to achieve proper tension turn ( loosen ) the knob until there is play in the rod and then tighten it just until there is some tension on the rod, then turn it 1/3 of a turn.. and up to 2 full turns more on larger blades if needed.. If I turn that so the arm is at the right height for the blade then tension it.. takes about 5 turns in order to get that slack in the rod at the back.. so doing that makes the blade about 3 turns over tighten..

On the Hawk they have if figured out to where you can change the distance between the upper and lower arms so you can adjust the top arm to bottom out at the right length of blade.. then set your tenson and it'll be the same every time you put in a new blade.. Unless of coarse you get one of those darn Pegas blades that has that extra little tip on the end sometimes.. 

At any rate it's not a big deal I guess to just bottom out the clamp onto the blade as Paul mentioned.. that's what I had been doing.. The Hawk just spoiled me I guess with all its adjustments.. I don't have to think about lowering the arm to a certain position and clamping the blade.. I just lower it all the way then insert the blade & clamp.

I put the blade in, put the tension lever back, turn the back knob until I start to feel tension, turn 3/4 turn more for a #3 blade and a full turn for a #5 blade.  After that I will not mess with the tension until my blade brakes or I go to a new blade. If that happens I double check it. That's how I tension mine. 

[kmmcrafts]

25 minutes ago, Dave Monk said:

I put the blade in, put the tension lever back, turn the back knob until I start to feel tension, turn 3/4 turn more for a #3 blade and a full turn for a #5 blade.  After that I will not mess with the tension until my blade brakes or I go to a new blade. If that happens I double check it. That's how I tension mine. 

That is how I've been doing it as that is what is suggested in the videos on Hegners site.. 

[Scrappile]

I do almost the same except I don't worry amount of turns,  I put the blade in and turn the knob in the back until I feel I have the right tension.  I pluck the blade to hear it and if the sound and feel say the right tension, I am off and scrolling.  Now, if you compare my work to Dave's work, maybe you are better off listening to Dave!

Edited February 9, 2023 by Scrappile