Blades .....

[Eplfan2011]

I know the subjects been beat to death but ..... Not makes or types but size.

How do you more experienced guys/gals go about choosing the size of blade to use on a project?

Wood thickness

How tight of turns on project

Largest/smallest possible

How familiar you are with one blade

I know at least one person who will say I use a #5 for almost everything.

I'm curious because most of you could cut most patterns with any blade you own. I'm sure if there was a chainsaw blade you could use that too!

So your reasonings please ... 

 

 

 

[Jim McDonald]

Remembering that different manufacturers have slightly different numbering for their blades in both teeth and thickness, we will dive into this.

After a few thousand inches of following the lines, one develops a feel for their prowess cutting. Some like blades super tight (guilty) while others will be just a notch lighter. 

Some like the tiniest blades (2/0) out there for everything under a certain thickness. For me, anything under 1/8", I gravitate to a #1 blade. Usually pick #3 up to about 1/2" or so, but I just finished a 3/4" cherry piece with some Pegas #3MGT. I am comfortable with that blade and that is my preferred sawdust generator. 

But, I still switch from time to time not only size but brands, depending on what I THINK might work better.

So, I really haven't given you an answer other than to develop your own knowledge base from experimentation. 

There is no database of blade/material/feed vs blade. Everyone has a general idea what they grab first, but put 10 of us around a table and you will get 15 opinions. Just make some dust and memories.

[Eplfan2011]

13 minutes ago, Jim McDonald said:

Remembering that different manufacturers have slightly different numbering for their blades in both teeth and thickness, we will dive into this.

After a few thousand inches of following the lines, one develops a feel for their prowess cutting. Some like blades super tight (guilty) while others will be just a notch lighter. 

Some like the tiniest blades (2/0) out there for everything under a certain thickness. For me, anything under 1/8", I gravitate to a #1 blade. Usually pick #3 up to about 1/2" or so, but I just finished a 3/4" cherry piece with some Pegas #3MGT. I am comfortable with that blade and that is my preferred sawdust generator. 

But, I still switch from time to time not only size but brands, depending on what I THINK might work better.

So, I really haven't given you an answer other than to develop your own knowledge base from experimentation. 

There is no database of blade/material/feed vs blade. Everyone has a general idea what they grab first, but put 10 of us around a table and you will get 15 opinions. Just make some dust and memories.

Thanks Jim,  I'm not looking for a answer just your insight, my goto is also a #3 mgt.

My blade collection has grown but now I have choices and that's confusing

[Wichman]

For me and the way I cut; criteria for the blade falls into the following categories:

1. Width of the kerf

    a. For the small box with a sliding dovetail I want a kerf that allows for the dovetail to move freely yet not be so large that the dovetail joint comes apart. I've been using FD Polar #1 blades in 1 1/2 inch oak (I've cut the box from purple heart)

    b. For the small Christmas ornaments I've been cutting ( the dragonfly is 1 3/4" wingtip to wingtip  ) I am using FD Polar #2/0. 1/8" basswood, stacked 4 high (1/2") I limit the stack to 1/2" because of the drill bits, not the blade. I use the #2/0 because that the kerf that looks best on the small ornaments. For the larger ornaments I'll change to #1.

2. How tight a corner

    a. For fretwork I use FD Polar #1 for tight curves and sharp corners. For long straight cuts (generally the outside) I'll switch to a FD Polar #3. Th thickness of most of the fretwork is between 3/4 to just over 1" ( sometimes stacked sometimes not )

    b. For compound cutting I use FD Polar blades generally #1 or #3 depending on what the pattern is. On the reindeer I'll use a #1 so I can cut the pattern in a single pass ( no breaks around the outside )

3. Stiffness of the blades

    I use FD Polar because, for me, they are the stiffest blades I've used. They resist bending inside the cut, so when cutting thick or stacked pieces the top, middle and bottom pieces are the same.

4. Other considerations, since I like fretwork I prefer stamped blades with a burr on one side. In my opinion this allows more flexibility in cutting because the burr helps to cut a tighter radius when the burr is in the direction of the turn.

[Eplfan2011]

Thank for your reply Wichman, very enlightening.

 I like the polar blades too, I find them easy to control for a beginner like myself.  They were recommended to me by an experienced scroller.

[kmmcrafts]

It's been around 10 years since I first bought the sample packs of Pegas brand blades. I bought samples of every style and size, the previous 8 or so years I used Flying Dutchman blades. I can tell you that I still to this day have most all those blades still in the sample packages.. I did try each and every blade so I did use at least 1 blade of each style and size. 

My sample packs have the Pegas MGT sizes 3,5,7 empty of blades so apparently I like these sizes, LOL. IF I had to choose one blade for all my projects I do I'd have to say #3 MGT.. second most used is the #5..

Not only does each person have a different preference but also every saw has a different set up. For a long time I used only Pegas blades on my Hawk and continued to use FD blades on my DeWalt / Excalibur. The DW you cannot adjust the saw for a more or less blade forward / back movement ( blade aggression ) and so the Pegas ( at first use ) was too aggressive for me on the DW saw.. I finally did get used to them.. but they are sharp and they cut much faster and took a bit more practice of controlling the cut. Now I use mostly only Pegas. I might use a #3 blade on the Excalibur where I normally would use a #5 on the Hawk cutting the same project. This is why I rarely will suggest a blade to anyone new or seasoned scroll sawer, because not every saw cuts the same. How the saw is tuned and set up makes a huge difference in cutting efficiency and blade life. 

Blade ( saw speed ) is another factor. in some cases a person can slow down or speed up a saw to make their comfort level with a certain blade. IF you find yourself pushing the wood harder than you should maybe you need to speed up the saw or choose a different blade. IF you find the cutting going too fast for you you can either slow the saw speed some or change a blade. Me personally, I run my saw on high speed for most all my cutting and adjust my sawing ability by swapping blades to get what I'm most comfortable with for sawing said project. I might have learned this technique from my first saw I had because it was a 2 speed saw and low speed was way too slow for me and high speed was kinda fast for me being a newbie at sawing so I learned to leave saw speed alone and look at various blades to find my comfort level.     

[OCtoolguy]

12 hours ago, Wichman said:

For me and the way I cut; criteria for the blade falls into the following categories:

1. Width of the kerf

    a. For the small box with a sliding dovetail I want a kerf that allows for the dovetail to move freely yet not be so large that the dovetail joint comes apart. I've been using FD Polar #1 blades in 1 1/2 inch oak (I've cut the box from purple heart)

    b. For the small Christmas ornaments I've been cutting ( the dragonfly is 1 3/4" wingtip to wingtip  ) I am using FD Polar #2/0. 1/8" basswood, stacked 4 high (1/2") I limit the stack to 1/2" because of the drill bits, not the blade. I use the #2/0 because that the kerf that looks best on the small ornaments. For the larger ornaments I'll change to #1.

2. How tight a corner

    a. For fretwork I use FD Polar #1 for tight curves and sharp corners. For long straight cuts (generally the outside) I'll switch to a FD Polar #3. Th thickness of most of the fretwork is between 3/4 to just over 1" ( sometimes stacked sometimes not )

    b. For compound cutting I use FD Polar blades generally #1 or #3 depending on what the pattern is. On the reindeer I'll use a #1 so I can cut the pattern in a single pass ( no breaks around the outside )

3. Stiffness of the blades

    I use FD Polar because, for me, they are the stiffest blades I've used. They resist bending inside the cut, so when cutting thick or stacked pieces the top, middle and bottom pieces are the same.

4. Other considerations, since I like fretwork I prefer stamped blades with a burr on one side. In my opinion this allows more flexibility in cutting because the burr helps to cut a tighter radius when the burr is in the direction of the turn.

Thanks Wich, you've brought many things to my attention that I never considered before.

[Wichman]

15 hours ago, Eplfan2011 said:

" I'm sure if there was a chainsaw blade you could use that too! "

I cut this pruning blade down so it would fit in my old Delta two speed. Never did find anything to cut with it though.

[Eplfan2011]

Kevin, I pretty much agree to most of what you stated above.

In my hawk I almost exclusively use pegas mgt blades as the saw is pretty gentle and the aggressive nature of the blades seems to be a perfect match. The Delta on the other hand is so aggressive that the MGT blades tend to run away with me regardless of saw speed, unless I'm sawing thick wood. I understand that this is down to my lack of skills, which I'm working on and on this saw I prefer FDUR blades but lately I'm gravitating towards the Fd polar instead.

I've found working on my hand placement and trying to keep the wood moving while cutting has improved my cutting more than anything else, right now I'm working at trying to be consistent.

[Dak0ta52]

I think the commenters here have summed it up pretty well. You have to gain experience to find out what you, specifically, prefer. Me, I tend to lean toward the smaller blades when possible. The #2/0, #0 and #1 are usually what is affixed to my saw rather it be spiral or straight. My preferred brand is Pegas. If I'm cutting fretwork on a piece that is dimensional (straight lines, circles, etc) I prefer a straight blade. If it is a line that is critical and could make or break a piece, I'll use a skip or double skip blade which cuts a little slower, in my opinion, than a MGT blade which is what I normally use. For portraits that are erratic (various sizes cuts, random locations) I'll us a spiral. I can't give you any preferences towards puzzles, segmentations, etc, because I haven't cut those. The more professionals here at the Village will have to comment on those.

I'm usually cutting 1/4-inch ply that is stacked, 2-layers. I have cut 3/4 and even 1 1/4 material. The only issue I had was with the 1 1/4 material where the blade deflection from pushing the material into the blade. The top of the material where the pattern was located was true to the pattern. However, the bottom of the material was cut off and broke through some of the thinner frets because of the bending of the blade.

Good luck on your quest!

[crupiea]

I have a bunch of different sizes.
 

I use 1 or 2 of those sizes for just about everything.  The rest are pretty much just displays for me to look at and never use.
 

Once you start getting in to it you will gravitate towards a certain style pretty much and then get blades that work best with that style.    

[OCtoolguy]

This does bring up an interesting question. For me at least. I cut most everything on one or the other of my Excalibur saws. I usually use a #5 mgt blade but when I was trying to cut the tiny reindeer earrings that Charley makes, I tried using some Pegas 2/0 blades. Leaving everything set the same way on my saw, I would insert the blade, take the slack out of the mechanism and flip the lever on my Pegas clamps. Either the blade would break instantly or soon after I started cutting. There is no tension adjustment on these saws if you try to maintain the upper arm at level to the table. The only way I could get them to not break was to either not take the slack out, or turn the large knob at the rear a half turn. Or something like that. How do you other Pegas/Excalibur/Seyco users do it?

 

[heppnerguy]

4 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

This does bring up an interesting question. For me at least. I cut most everything on one or the other of my Excalibur saws. I usually use a #5 mgt blade but when I was trying to cut the tiny reindeer earrings that Charley makes, I tried using some Pegas 2/0 blades. Leaving everything set the same way on my saw, I would insert the blade, take the slack out of the mechanism and flip the lever on my Pegas clamps. Either the blade would break instantly or soon after I started cutting. There is no tension adjustment on these saws if you try to maintain the upper arm at level to the table. The only way I could get them to not break was to either not take the slack out, or turn the large knob at the rear a half turn. Or something like that. How do you other Pegas/Excalibur/Seyco users do it?

 

I recently was cutting an extremely tight pattern and the turn was so small and sharp that I had my doubts as to whether or not I would be able to make that cut and not increase the room needed to do so. I was cutting a 1/4 inch thick Juniper wood and I usually use a Pegas #3 mgt blade for almost all my projects now. But for this really delicate, small and sharp turn, I elected to to to a #2/0 Pegas MGT and found I was successful. About the breakage on the smaller Pegas blades, I found the same problem with my blades breaking so I have been staying away from using them. I too have a Excalibur saw. What I have done to prevent the breakage is to fasten my blade in the holder, back off the back knob about 1/8th of a turn,set my tension knob and then turn the back knob to take up the slack. I found I had not problem with breakage that way and I turned the back knob only enough to take the tension off the blade but reap on the knob. I never broke a blade and I  had no problem staying on the pattern lines or making sharp and small turns

Dick

heppnerguy

[Matt B]

Like most here, I almost always use a MGT #3.   Once in a while I will use a #5 or #1 both MGT. 
When I first started scrolling, I saw a blade chart and ordered several blade sizes including #7.  I used one of those; not sure why I still have them.  

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, heppnerguy said:

I recently was cutting an extremely tight pattern and the turn was so small and sharp that I had my doubts as to whether or not I would be able to make that cut and not increase the room needed to do so. I was cutting a 1/4 inch thick Juniper wood and I usually use a Pegas #3 mgt blade for almost all my projects now. But for this really delicate, small and sharp turn, I elected to to to a #2/0 Pegas MGT and found I was successful. About the breakage on the smaller Pegas blades, I found the same problem with my blades breaking so I have been staying away from using them. I too have a Excalibur saw. What I have done to prevent the breakage is to fasten my blade in the holder, back off the back knob about 1/8th of a turn,set my tension knob and then turn the back knob to take up the slack. I found I had not problem with breakage that way and I turned the back knob only enough to take the tension off the blade but reap on the knob. I never broke a blade and I  had no problem staying on the pattern lines or making sharp and small turns

Dick

heppnerguy

So I was right in how I did it! Thanks Dick.

[kmmcrafts]

13 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

This does bring up an interesting question. For me at least. I cut most everything on one or the other of my Excalibur saws. I usually use a #5 mgt blade but when I was trying to cut the tiny reindeer earrings that Charley makes, I tried using some Pegas 2/0 blades. Leaving everything set the same way on my saw, I would insert the blade, take the slack out of the mechanism and flip the lever on my Pegas clamps. Either the blade would break instantly or soon after I started cutting. There is no tension adjustment on these saws if you try to maintain the upper arm at level to the table. The only way I could get them to not break was to either not take the slack out, or turn the large knob at the rear a half turn. Or something like that. How do you other Pegas/Excalibur/Seyco users do it?

 

When I use my Excalibur for the larger blades I typically will push down on the top of the blade chuck to take out slack when clamping the blade.. then I tighten the screw and apply tension and then again release tension and kinda do the same thing over. I find there is slack ( in my saw anyway ) in that upper arm and when applying the tension the first time round it pulls the arm fully down and releasing the tension I can see slack in the blade. When using the real small blades I do not do the re-tension the second time. 

While the tension set up on these is nice and simple for probably most of the average scrollers.. it's a shame Excalibur did away with the tension lever like on the DW saws.. The early saws had the same style lever. Once you put a lot of hours in on a scroll saw you do get a feel for how much tension you have just by the pressure it takes to push that tension lever, LOL

Most times I just swap over to the Hawk where I can adjust the tension.. 

The only Excalibur style saw now days with a adjustable tension is the Jet saw.. But if you change to Pegas clamps then you lose that option, LOL. The top of the blade chuck on that saw has adjustable height by turning the tension lever will raise or lower the position of the chuck to achieve proper clamping and tension.   

[TAIrving]

16 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

This does bring up an interesting question. For me at least. I cut most everything on one or the other of my Excalibur saws. I usually use a #5 mgt blade but when I was trying to cut the tiny reindeer earrings that Charley makes, I tried using some Pegas 2/0 blades. Leaving everything set the same way on my saw, I would insert the blade, take the slack out of the mechanism and flip the lever on my Pegas clamps. Either the blade would break instantly or soon after I started cutting. There is no tension adjustment on these saws if you try to maintain the upper arm at level to the table. The only way I could get them to not break was to either not take the slack out, or turn the large knob at the rear a half turn. Or something like that. How do you other Pegas/Excalibur/Seyco users do it?

 

@OCtoolguyI also had a problem with the Pegas MGT 2/0 blades breaking when I tensioned them.  I don't like adjusting the large knob at the rear as that affects other properties of the saw.  The technique I now use is to press ever so slightly on the side of the 2/0 blade to introduce a little bit of extra slack before tensioning.  It takes a little bit of practice but after a while you develop a feel for it.  

@kmmcraftsI also do like Kevin said to get the extra slack out of the EX type saw (I have a Pegas): i.e. I clamp and tension, then release the tension and clamp, re-clamp and re-tension.  

For the OP @Eplfan2011:  I have not experimented with different brands or types of blades.  I use almost exclusively the Pegas MGT blades, the #3 and #1 being my go-to blades.  But I will use larger blades for some projects (thicker wood, simpler cuts) or finer blades for finer details in fretwork.  And i will use spiral blades, mostly for larger kerf when that is called for.  

[jerry walters]

Colin, at the beginning of this subject you said the subject of blades has been beaten to death. This kind of took me back to my school days. We were promoted to the next grade, but early in the school year we always reviewed what we learned the previous year or maybe 2 or 3 years back. This was done in an effort to remind us of what we probably forgot during the summer. So, I always learn something new when the subject comes up again. So, to y'all (learned the from FrankEV) that have been members and to the newbies. don't hesitate to bring up subjects that have been posted before. We all need reviews. Thanks for listening.

Jerry

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, jerry walters said:

Colin, at the beginning of this subject you said the subject of blades has been beaten to death. This kind of took me back to my school days. We were promoted to the next grade, but early in the school year we always reviewed what we learned the previous year or maybe 2 or 3 years back. This was done in an effort to remind us of what we probably forgot during the summer. So, I always learn something new when the subject comes up again. So, to y'all (learned the from FrankEV) that have been members and to the newbies. don't hesitate to bring up subjects that have been posted before. We all need reviews. Thanks for listening.

Jerry

I cannot agree more with this.. PLUS, new blade styles and brands sometimes get mentioned that are not to most known about. Many folks have never heard of the SuperSharp brand of blade sold by PSWood. They are also a good blade but pricey and last I knew no reverse tooth option.. I like them for cutting thick wood.. but I only bought them to "try" and the Pegas are really good all around blade so I doubt I'd go outta my way ( pay extra money) to buy them again but someone else might. This is how we learn new things sometimes by bringing up topics that have been talked about many times over the years. Not to mention we gain new members all the time that have different methods of doing things that we can possibly learn from or give them some learning experiences.  

[MarieC]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:35 AM, kmmcrafts said:

.. it's a shame Excalibur did away with the tension lever like on the DW saws.. The early saws had the same style lever.  

Kevin, I have a Green EX 21, would it have the tension lever you are speaking of since it is an older saw?  if so where is it located? 

I have been cutting 3/4 inch walnut with a spiral 2/0 blade which I enjoy using but I have been breaking quite a few of them in the walnut..it is probably too thick but if I can keep from breaking them I would like to continue using them...at least for this project.... Thanks, Marie

Edited April 1, 2023 by MarieC

[kmmcrafts]

51 minutes ago, MarieC said:

Kevin, I have a Green EX 21, would it have the tension lever you are speaking of since it is an older saw?  if so where is it located? 

I have been cutting 3/4 inch walnut with a spiral 2/0 blade which I enjoy using but I have been breaking quite a few of them in the walnut..it is probably too thick but if I can keep from breaking them I would like to continue using them...at least for this project.... Thanks, Marie

I found this photo on google search. Look closely at the front of the saw.. there is no white flip tension lever on top of the blade clamp like todays saws have on them. Then look just below the on/off switch and see the lever sticking out.. That is how the DeWalt saws tension the blade and how the early Excaliburs did. You slide the lever one way to tighten the blade and slide it back to release tension.. The farther you turn it the tighter you make the blade.. so it's variable tension unlike having to flip the lever all the way to lock it. Hope that makes sense to you. 

[OCtoolguy]

If your saw doesn't have that lever it will have the black knob at the rear that is to be used to adjust the arm height. It wasn't meant to be used for tension adjustment but can be.

[MarieC]

13 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I found this photo on google search. Look closely at the front of the saw.. there is no white flip tension lever on top of the blade clamp like todays saws have on them. Then look just below the on/off switch and see the lever sticking out.. That is how the DeWalt saws tension the blade and how the early Excaliburs did. You slide the lever one way to tighten the blade and slide it back to release tension.. The farther you turn it the tighter you make the blade.. so it's variable tension unlike having to flip the lever all the way to lock it. Hope that makes sense to you. 

 

Thank you Kevin for looking this up for me, much appreciated.  I must have a bit newer one since I have the white flip tension lever on top.  So I will have to do what Ray suggested.  I am thinking for switching to the Pegas clamps, which probably doesn't allow that either, is my thinking.   Thanks again!  mc

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, MarieC said:

Thank you Kevin for looking this up for me, much appreciated.  I must have a bit newer one since I have the white flip tension lever on top.  So I will have to do what Ray suggested.  I am thinking for switching to the Pegas clamps, which probably doesn't allow that either, is my thinking.   Thanks again!  mc

The Pegas clamps are a definite improvement. 

[JessL]

I am so enjoying this thread. I am learning a lot while I find my way through the multiple blade choices available. I just purchased some new ones today and can't wait for them to arrive!