Finishing Opinions wanted! Wall pieces specfically...

[new2woodwrk]

I've had a discussion with another scroller about finishes on pieces that are hung - wall hanger, portraits, picture frames etc.

So my question is:

If/when you make these items and apply your finish, do you make the finish on the back of the item (the part against the wall) as equal quality to the part that is not against the wall?

Thanks as always in advance.

[kmmcrafts]

Good topic, I myself do finish "all" of the project the same.. I know the piece isn't seen by only the person that hangs it on the wall.. but to me it just doesn't make the piece seem cheapened up. Also if it is solid timber rather than ply, the wood will still breath and if only the front side is finished ( sealed ) the back side can and probably will breath so there is still a possibility of the piece warping / cupping... 

I'm not sure if it's overkill or not.. that's just my thinking process and what I do.. 

[Gonzo]

I agree 100% with Kevin. 

[dgman]

I was a “Woodworker” before I was a “Scroller “. As a woodworker, you always finish all sides of a piece equally. As Kevin mentioned, to allow equal moisture absorption. The possibility of warping is there. It may not happen, but why chance it? And, it does cheapen the look as it is almost impossible to not get finish on the back side, or even the bottom of the piece.

[new2woodwrk]

Thanks all, great stuff this...

While I may or may not agree with most, the cupping/warping is a valid concern.

However, if you have any commercial grade or fine art works, take a look at the back of the art/frame.

More often than not there is a sheet of paper or other material covering the back edge to edge. If you remove a small area of that paper, you will notice the frame is not as finished as the front on some.

There is definitely a finish of sorts, to arrest any weathering of the frame and art work, but it is more often than not, a lessor finish as the front.

[flarud]

I've read before that all sides should be finished because of the reasons mentioned above,, but I have also read that that is a myth.  

[Scrappile]

for a long time I did not worry the back...but I ashamed of my self and started finishing the back.

[crupiea]

I do.  The reason is if someone looks at it, in order to hang it on the wall they will need to look at the back.  If there is overspray and what not to me it just seems unprofessional.  I just usually paint the back the same color as the frame. I make the frames too as they are basically a part of the overall picture.

Nothing special but it just makes it more finished in my opinion. 

[Peter N White]

Might be a silly question if you finish all pieces do you hope glue on finished services will hold.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Peter N White said:

Might be a silly question if you finish all pieces do you hope glue on finished services will hold.

For the most part I finish everything "after" it's glued and assembled etc. IF it's a wall hanging plaque with a backer and I have to finish it separately I use WeldBond glue which is supposed to stick to most surfaces.. never had a issue with them coming apart.. 

[BadBob]

Commercially produced does not equal quality.

[kmmcrafts]

Bob took that thought right from me, LOL.. Typically a home hobbyist or very small business that cares about the reputation of the small business will make a higher quality product than a commercial company that is more worried about cost and time. A commercial company's bottom line is always about the money. A small owner operator  business should be worried about quality and customer satisfaction.. and yes cost has to come into play as well but we should also not be trying to compete with mass produced items and their mass produced cost. This is why Handmade / Homemade typically can be priced higher than those China mass produced items. 

 

[BadBob]

32 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Bob took that thought right from me, LOL.. Typically a home hobbyist or very small business that cares about the reputation of the small business will make a higher quality product than a commercial company that is more worried about cost and time. A commercial company's bottom line is always about the money. A small owner operator  business should be worried about quality and customer satisfaction.. and yes cost has to come into play as well but we should also not be trying to compete with mass produced items and their mass produced cost. This is why Handmade / Homemade typically can be priced higher than those China mass produced items. 

 

Well said.

I strive for the highest quality I can make with available materials. I want buyers to be surprised at how well-made my items are.

[Bill WIlson]

I've seen a fair amount of antique furniture that looks fantastic on the surfaces that you can see, but if you look underneath an antique chair or table, you will often see that, not only is it not finished, but it may not even be milled/smoothed to the same degree as the show sides.  Of course, 200 years ago, there was a lot more manual work involved with planing and finishing wood, so doing it to surfaces that no one saw was viewed as a waste of time and resources.

In modern times, with machinery doing most of the hard work involved with milling lumber, and finishes being applied with spray guns, it became much more common and often more practical to finish all surfaces.  

I don't know if the need to finish both sides of a piece of wood is myth or not.  It sounds logical.  If wood movement is a concern, I think it is probably prudent to at least seal the hidden side.  One may not want or need to follow the exact same finishing schedule, especially if it involves steps like grain filling, staining/dyeing and multiple coats of a clear finish that need to be rubbed down after each application.

I don't make stuff to sell, so my perspective may be a little more casual.  Personally, if I'm making a piece that is intended to hang on a wall, I don't get too concerned about finishing the back to the same degree as the front.  I might give it a quick coat or 2 of shellac, but I don't worry about it much.  I don't want it to look like trash either, so I also take care not to leave a lot of glue squeeze out on the back or let stain and finish run down over the back.  If I can't keep the stain from getting on the back, I'll go ahead and stain the whole thing.  

[Rolf]

For me the entire piece has to look and feel good!  And as Kevin (Kmmcrafts) said if you only finish one side in all probability it will warp. 

I also do all of the assembly first then finish. On occasion I will cover surfaces to be glued with tape, finish then assemble.

[kmmcrafts]

Also should mention that "some" paper types are coated and used as moisture barriers.... Maybe that is done so they don't have to spend resources to "finish" a piece to look "proper" to speed up production it's quicker to have a light coat of spray on the back and then cover it with a moisture barrier paper for a easier look on the eyes that see their poor quality. 

Either method has nothing really wrong with it so long as it's sealed up good enough to not warp etc. Some businesses or hobbyist pride themselves on the fine details while other pride themselves on production numbers and meeting halfway with quality vrs. price.. in either case I don't think a person doing a half *ss job should be trying to net the "high end" prices. 

 

[Denny Knappen]

A very good discussion and lots of helpful information.

[new2woodwrk]

7 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Also should mention that "some" paper types are coated and used as moisture barriers.... Maybe that is done so they don't have to spend resources to "finish" a piece to look "proper" to speed up production it's quicker to have a light coat of spray on the back and then cover it with a moisture barrier paper for a easier look on the eyes that see their poor quality. 

Either method has nothing really wrong with it so long as it's sealed up good enough to not warp etc. Some businesses or hobbyist pride themselves on the fine details while other pride themselves on production numbers and meeting halfway with quality vrs. price.. in either case I don't think a person doing a half *ss job should be trying to net the "high end" prices. 

 

I don't consider not finishing the back of a piece half *ssed - sorry!

I have a limited edition Giclee on canvas by a very well known artist whose frame is "half *ssed"!

To each his own.

Edited April 4, 2023 by new2woodwrk

[dgman]

2 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

I don't consider not finishing the back of a piece half *ssed - sorry!

I have a limited edition Giclee on canvas by a very well known artist whose frame is "half *ssed"!

To each his own.

Then why did you ask?

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, new2woodwrk said:

I don't consider not finishing the back of a piece half *ssed - sorry!

I have a limited edition Giclee on canvas by a very well known artist whose frame is "half *ssed"!

To each his own.

No need to be sorry it's just an opinion of mine.. yours is different.. 

[meflick]

Like others, i try to always finish the back of a piece. To me, it is not "finished" with the raw wood on the back.  That is clearly just my opinion and preference and plenty others do not see an issue with it.

My niece bought a large round wooden sign with her newborn's name, first and middle, and date of birth on it. She changed the name of the child after she ordered the sign (they had agreed on one name before she was born, then they decided on a different one after she was born ).  So, then she wanted to know if we could change the name on it.  I agreed to do it and cut the name out on the scroll saw.  When I got the round board to remove the original name done by the Etsy seller, I was appalled to find the back was not finished in anyway, it was simply unfinished wood on the back.  Given what they charge for these signs - I couldn't believe they hadn't put any finish on the back side. Yes, it hangs against the wall and nobody sees the back - Until it is taken down.  But to me it made the piece look cheap and not done.  I personally would never buy a piece that did not have the back finished in some way with at least the stain or seal coat done.  However, with this sign, I don't know you would have known until it arrived since she bought it off Etsy.  I never checked the listing.

[kmmcrafts]

3 hours ago, meflick said:

Like others, i try to always finish the back of a piece. To me, it is not "finished" with the raw wood on the back.  That is clearly just my opinion and preference and plenty others do not see an issue with it.

My niece bought a large round wooden sign with her newborn's name, first and middle, and date of birth on it. She changed the name of the child after she ordered the sign (they had agreed on one name before she was born, then they decided on a different one after she was born ).  So, then she wanted to know if we could change the name on it.  I agreed to do it and cut the name out on the scroll saw.  When I got the round board to remove the original name done by the Etsy seller, I was appalled to find the back was not finished in anyway, it was simply unfinished wood on the back.  Given what they charge for these signs - I couldn't believe they hadn't put any finish on the back side. Yes, it hangs against the wall and nobody sees the back - Until it is taken down.  But to me it made the piece look cheap and not done.  I personally would never buy a piece that did not have the back finished in some way with at least the stain or seal coat done.  However, with this sign, I don't know you would have known until it arrived since she bought it off Etsy.  I never checked the listing.

Unfortunately everyone has a different idea of quality.. and value.. As a seller on etsy I offer a full refund within 14 days if the item isn't what they were expecting. Lot's of sellers won't even accept returns and get all huffy puffy with a customer for complaining about quality of items etc.. rather than learning to improve quality from it.  Because everyone's idea of quality is different I've always strived to give the best quality possible and best customer service.  I cannot give the best price but they can know that if there is something wrong with the order it can be returned. Unfortunately not many sellers are like this and these sites ( etsy, ebay, and amazon ) have to implement a customer satisfaction money back guarantee that comes from every sellers pockets buy rising selling fees etc. to cover the cost of those type sellers.   

 

[JessL]

I'm on team finish it all.  That was how I learned, and still learning, to do a quality finish piece of art whether for myself and especially if I am selling it.