Hawk for sale

[Gene Howe]

Perusing Craigslist and found a like new Hawk for $350. It's a good five hour drive, 250 miles one way. Wondering if it's worth it. My truck gets about 10 MPG. 50 gallon of gas at $4.00 per. Probably not. 

[preprius]

I did did this with a 26" hawk. 

I had to take the legs off to fit in my car.    No truck needed.  

[OCtoolguy]

It pretty much depends on which Hawk it is. We need mor info to make an informed suggestion. Can you supply the ad?

 

[kmmcrafts]

Yeah, Hawk had a lot of different models over the years and some of them aren't worth as a boat anchor, LOL  I see way to often people saying those old single speed saws are worth $500+ just because it has the Hawk name and is orange in color.. Unless you really know what you're looking at they all "look" the same at a glance.. 

[Gene Howe]

2 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

It pretty much depends on which Hawk it is. We need mor info to make an informed suggestion. Can you supply the ad?

 

Here is the ad. We'll, I tried to capture it. 

[kmmcrafts]

I'd pass on it, if it was right around the local area then maybe.. This is a old saw 1995 or older saw with the round barrel clamps and likely the motor that they had issues with. Unless it's been upgraded to a newer motor.. I heard they stopped offering the motor upgrade kits so now if a motor stops you're on your own. 

[OCtoolguy]

Kevin, I'm curious as to how you were able to tell all that from one picture. I looked at it and saw that it has variable speed and the tension lever on the arm. I don't see that motor. To me, it looks like a 226 Ultra. Just like the one I had. What do you see?

 

[kmmcrafts]

@OCtoolguy It's what I don't see  , I don't see holes in the accessory arm for the "Ultra" blade holder to set in to change the blade.. The Ultra saws blade holders have a small roll pin to go through then and they're notched out so when you place the holder into the hole ( that's not on this saw ) on the accessory arm the notch rest on top of the arm so you can loosen the thumb screw to change the blade. Another give away is the lack of a line-loc flexible air blower tube.. but a lot of those older saws had been upgraded to the line-loc so the lack of holes in the accessory arm is a dead give away that it's a old saw. Everything from 1996 ( Ultra and newer ) to the current BM series have those holes in the arm to hold the blade clamp for changing blades.. 

[OCtoolguy]

5 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

@OCtoolguy It's what I don't see  , I don't see holes in the accessory arm for the "Ultra" blade holder to set in to change the blade.. The Ultra saws blade holders have a small roll pin to go through then and they're notched out so when you place the holder into the hole ( that's not on this saw ) on the accessory arm the notch rest on top of the arm so you can loosen the thumb screw to change the blade. Another give away is the lack of a line-loc flexible air blower tube.. but a lot of those older saws had been upgraded to the line-loc so the lack of holes in the accessory arm is a dead give away that it's an old saw. Everything from 1996 ( Ultra and newer ) to the current BM series have those holes in the arm to hold the blade clamp for changing blades. 

I went back and looked after I commented and saw those holes were missing but left my comment to see if there was something else. 

[BadBob]

The round blade holders are enough for me to say no. Once you have crawled around the floor looking for one that went flying, you will understand why.

[kmmcrafts]

I actually liked my old saw with the round clamps... Kinda wish I had kept it. I never had a problem with the holder going MIA once I put a new spring clip on.. I know you replaced yours or tried to but it didn't work for you. Kind of feel something isn't right with your saws set up but I'm not there or the one running it so I can't say for sure. I believe your saw is older than the one I had and maybe the position of where the clip mounts to the arm changed or something over the few years difference.. I'm not sure but I never had the holder go to the floor after replacing the worn out clip. I know Hawk made A LOT of changes and upgrades throughout the years.. unlike Hegner who studied their design and fine tuned it before sending them out to customers / users.. Hawk sold what they came up with and took feedback from the users and improved along the way. Unfortunately Bushton doesn't seem to like criticism and think they have built the best saw in the world and it's your problem if the saw isn't exactly how you think it should be. There are things they took away from the new saws that the old saws had and I think it wasn't a improvement.. Probably the biggest pitfall of the new Hawk is they did away with the "soft start" motors.. you hit the pedal and it's instant on at your speed setting which jerks the saw and is a lot of un-needed stress on a blade. I don't have a issue with mine but I could see it being a problem with small blades.. Probably not a great saw if you typically use real small blades.  

[OCtoolguy]

So what you are saying Kevin is the 226 Ultra and the GM series are the best Hawks to own? I know that the 226 Ultra that I had was a great saw. It was just too big for my shop. I hated to sell it.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, OCtoolguy said:

So what you are saying Kevin is the 226 Ultra and the GM series are the best Hawks to own? I know that the 226 Ultra that I had was a great saw. It was just too big for my shop. I hated to sell it.

I think the best one is probably the G4, that said I don't have personal experience with one.. but I've talked to others that say they have the "soft start".. I really like the Ultra too. Those two are probably the best made saws Hawk made.. BM series are nice saws, I just don't like that instant on. I called Bushton to ask about the soft start and I think they confused it with delayed start. ( ie the soft start feature of the older saws is just that, you hit the pedal and it "ramps up to speed slowly" )  I asked them about it because they're advertised as having soft start. Their words to me was yes it's soft start, so I said well something wrong with mine then because when I hit the switch its on at instant speed that I have the dial set at. Then they back peddled and said well it's soft start but it's just a quick delay of milliseconds that you hardly even notice, I said okay but with small blades it breaks the blades.. They say they recommend turning the saw on at a slower speed and the manually ramping up to the desired speed.. That's what soft start is supposed to do, 

I like the saw and not a issue for me since I don't use real small blades often and if I do I use a different saw. But it could be a problem for some folks that mainly use small blades or only have the option for one saw to use.   

[heppnerguy]

I bought one like this one at an estate sale  for $65 a few years back and I was so excited to get it. After I had it for about a year I gave it to my daughter, who still has it and it is still running great. I use it occasionally when I am in Oregon but it is a real pain to use do to the task of changing the blades and adjusting the tension. I would not buy it if I had it to do all over again.

Dick

heppnerguy

[OCtoolguy]

45 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I think the best one is probably the G4, that said I don't have personal experience with one.. but I've talked to others that say they have the "soft start".. I really like the Ultra too. Those two are probably the best made saws Hawk made.. BM series are nice saws, I just don't like that instant on. I called Bushton to ask about the soft start and I think they confused it with delayed start. ( ie the soft start feature of the older saws is just that, you hit the pedal and it "ramps up to speed slowly" )  I asked them about it because they're advertised as having soft start. Their words to me was yes it's soft start, so I said well something wrong with mine then because when I hit the switch its on at instant speed that I have the dial set at. Then they back peddled and said well it's soft start but it's just a quick delay of milliseconds that you hardly even notice, I said okay but with small blades it breaks the blades.. They say they recommend turning the saw on at a slower speed and the manually ramping up to the desired speed.. That's what soft start is supposed to do, 

I like the saw and not a issue for me since I don't use real small blades often and if I do I use a different saw. But it could be a problem for some folks that mainly use small blades or only have the option for one saw to use.   

Kevin, why don't you make them a deal. Tell them you will pay for a new controller but if it solves your problem they have to refund your money. Or something along those lines. It sounds to me like you got a lemon. If I recall yours was one of the first off the line so whatever the problem might be, they have solved it. But yours is still bad. I wouldn't take no for an answer.

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, heppnerguy said:

I bought one like this one at an estate sale  for $65 a few years back and I was so excited to get it. After I had it for about a year I gave it to my daughter, who still has it and it is still running great. I use it occasionally when I am in Oregon but it is a real pain to use do to the task of changing the blades and adjusting the tension. I would not buy it if I had it to do all over again.

Dick

heppnerguy

You must have had the very old 12 -20 inch saw that didn't have the front tension lever? Shouldn't have to adjust it but one time on the little newer saws.. One in the picture has up front tension. Like I say many times, they all look close to the same but really big improvements on newer ones. 

[kmmcrafts]

2 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

Kevin, why don't you make them a deal. Tell them you will pay for a new controller but if it solves your problem they have to refund your money. Or something along those lines. It sounds to me like you got a lemon. If I recall yours was one of the first off the line so whatever the problem might be, they have solved it. But yours is still bad. I wouldn't take no for an answer.

I've talked to a few others with same model saw and they are all that way even the current ones.. some of the others also expressed to Hawk about the issue and got the same basic answer.  They offered to let me return it, I chose to keep it as it's not an issue with larger blades like I use the majority of the time, and with the less aggressive cutting you don't need as small a blade like you would with a Excalibur.. That is unless you need a specific fine detail in the pattern itself.. I know one person that also chose to keep it and one that actually took the return option.

It's a great saw, just the so called soft start was what I was used to with the older saws, I've grown used to the saw the way it is..  

The 3-4 people I know all said that the ad on the site is misleading about having a soft start, I agree with them.. Even suggested they remove it from the site.. maybe they have now but they didn't change it for a long time. They have upgraded their outdated site to show what parts are in inventory and what isn't etc.. They have nice saws but man the website, manuals, and customer service is not the best, though they have improved on customer service too some but I haven't dealt with them much since I don't really need any parts etc.. 

EDIT: No my Hawk wasn't a first of them, that was the Excalibur being one of the first made from china saws.. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by kmmcrafts

[BadBob]

There are other things I don't like about "My" old two-speed 226 Hawk besides the round blade holder. I used this saw for a long time before I got my Excalibur EX21. Now it is only used for a backup, and I am actively looking for a used replacement.

• Reaching the back of the saw to release the blade tension.
• The blade mounting system is a pain to use.
• I need a tool to hold the top clamp in place. If I forget to use the tool, the blade will not be mounted correctly. If I forget to take the tool off, it goes flying.
• I don't like the aluminum table top. That is a personal preference, but I prefer steel or cast iron.
• If I change blade sizes, I have to adjust the tension. If I forget and it is a smaller blade, it will likely break the blade shortly after the saw starts.

By comparison, the Excalibur EX-21:

• It is easy to tension once you have it set up correctly. Flip the front lever, and done.
• Changing blades is simple and fast.
• It has a steel table, and other parts are also steel allowing me to position lights or any other magnetic thing just about anywhere.
• The blade holders don't come off.
• Internal cuts are quick and easy.
• I never heed to crawl around the floor looking for dropped parts.
• I can change blades to a different size without adjustment.

I did change the clip to the newer style. It is plastic with ears on the side. If the blade breaks, the bottom blade clamp will drop almost every time. Usually, the clamp remains on the saw under the table. The older metal clamp drops the clamp a lot less, but when it does, it is on the floor somewhere and rarely on the saw.

I have three different clamps for the hawk. Two will not work with the plastic holder because they are too small. The larger one works with both the plastic and the steel holder. The brass part is removable.

[heppnerguy]

On 4/27/2023 at 1:14 PM, kmmcrafts said:

You must have had the very old 12 -20 inch saw that didn't have the front tension lever? Shouldn't have to adjust it but one time on the little newer saws.. One in the picture has up front tension. Like I say many times, they all look close to the same but really big improvements on newer ones. 

 I know the  Hawks are one of the better saws on the market, and you are correct about the one I had. I understand that the newer models have some much needed improvements and I would not object or reject one of the newer one to anyone. Mine had the barrel blade fasteners and that too was too much to mess with, in my opinion, how ever I received a homemade and much easier replacement that the person made and sent to me. I am really sorry that I can't remember his name as he was quite prominent in the Village for some time and he passed away about a  year ago. when i received the new adapters from him I immediately sent hime a large box of exotic wood as a thank you. Just fill you in on my thinking on the saw.

Dick

heppnerguy

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, heppnerguy said:

 I know the  Hawks are one of the better saws on the market, and you are correct about the one I had. I understand that the newer models have some much needed improvements and I would not object or reject one of the newer one to anyone. Mine had the barrel blade fasteners and that too was too much to mess with, in my opinion, how ever I received a homemade and much easier replacement that the person made and sent to me. I am really sorry that I can't remember his name as he was quite prominent in the Village for some time and he passed away about a  year ago. when i received the new adapters from him I immediately sent hime a large box of exotic wood as a thank you. Just fill you in on my thinking on the saw.

Dick

heppnerguy

I think that might have been Rockytime (Les). He made some that worked much better.

 

[heppnerguy]

On 4/28/2023 at 4:51 AM, BadBob said:

There are other things I don't like about "My" old two-speed 226 Hawk besides the round blade holder. I used this saw for a long time before I got my Excalibur EX21. Now it is only used for a backup, and I am actively looking for a used replacement.

• Reaching the back of the saw to release the blade tension.
• The blade mounting system is a pain to use.
• I need a tool to hold the top clamp in place. If I forget to use the tool, the blade will not be mounted correctly. If I forget to take the tool off, it goes flying.
• I don't like the aluminum table top. That is a personal preference, but I prefer steel or cast iron.
• If I change blade sizes, I have to adjust the tension. If I forget and it is a smaller blade, it will likely break the blade shortly after the saw starts.

By comparison, the Excalibur EX-21:

• It is easy to tension once you have it set up correctly. Flip the front lever, and done.
• Changing blades is simple and fast.
• It has a steel table, and other parts are also steel allowing me to position lights or any other magnetic thing just about anywhere.
• The blade holders don't come off.
• Internal cuts are quick and easy.
• I never heed to crawl around the floor looking for dropped parts.
• I can change blades to a different size without adjustment.

I did change the clip to the newer style. It is plastic with ears on the side. If the blade breaks, the bottom blade clamp will drop almost every time. Usually, the clamp remains on the saw under the table. The older metal clamp drops the clamp a lot less, but when it does, it is on the floor somewhere and rarely on the saw.

I have three different clamps for the hawk. Two will not work with the plastic holder because they are too small. The larger one works with both the plastic and the steel holder. The brass part is removable.

The blade holder you show are very similar to the ones that were sent to me by one of our previous members here. They were so much easier then the original ones.

I recently purchased the Pegas blade holders for my EX and I love them. I really don't notice a difference in the vibration of the saw but I never felt there was a vibration problem in the first place. What I like about the Pegas blade clamps is the fact that they designed the blade tension slots so both the upper and lower slots have no obstructions and it improves clamping  and replacing the blades 90 percent, for me. So much easier and faster. I will eventually replace the ones on my other EX saw with them also. They appear to be made of a better material also but not positive about that as I am pretty ignorant about metals. Just my take.

Dick

heppnerguy

[Woodrush]

On 4/26/2023 at 6:50 PM, kmmcrafts said:

I'd pass on it, if it was right around the local area then maybe.. This is a old saw 1995 or older saw with the round barrel clamps and likely the motor that they had issues with. Unless it's been upgraded to a newer motor.. I heard they stopped offering the motor upgrade kits so now if a motor stops you're on your own. 

Looks the same as my 1992

[Woodrush]

Just now, Woodrush said:

Looks the same as my 1992

I wouldn't pay more than 200 and it would have to ne close