Blades story

[James E. Welch]

I really don't want to start a debate. I just want to tell you guys what I experienced. I bought a hegner (had a king) and around the same time bought a bunch of pegas blades. I didn't put the two together though and just knew that I was breaking blades like crazy on the hegner. I thought it was the learning curve or something. Well long story short I eventually put the two together and bought some flying Dutchman. They came in today and I'm not breaking blades at all. Could be lots of factors involved, I know, but so far it feels like flying Dutchman has awoken the great saw that was hiding under a pile of broken blades and I'm excited. 

[rafairchild2]

17 minutes ago, James E. Welch said:

I really don't want to start a debate. I just want to tell you guys what I experienced. I bought a hegner (had a king) and around the same time bought a bunch of pegas blades. I didn't put the two together though and just knew that I was breaking blades like crazy on the hegner. ....

This weekend, I again tried the Pegas #3 modified Geometry blades on my two new spoons.  Walnut (3/4") and Black Limba (1/2"). Switched to a #5 on the 3/4" Walnut.

I had some issues with the blades getting caught and thus being pulled out of the chuck a few times, bent badly, but no breaky.  Sanded the blades at the point of chuck contact, etc... Because I do not use clear contact paper when I will carve after, (vs all other times) I use a removable spray adhesive direct on the paper to the wood, so I lose some lubrication of the blade.  I did turn my machine way down as I find the Pegas Modified Gemonitry to be fairly aggressive, but I have to admit sharp.

Still, I favor the Flying Dutchman Ultra Reverse #5 as my go-to blade, but I think for me there is some utility in using the Pegas on some types of wood/projects.

Like everything in the scroll saw the world, each person finds their own preferences and go-tos.  There really is no wrong answer.

Edited July 31, 2023 by rafairchild2

[James E. Welch]

I'm not posting to start a debate. I hope that was clear in my post. I know there are preferences and variables. This was about being unsatisfied with my saw purchase and finding out that it was a blade issue. I just wanted to share that sometimes it's something simple. 

[rafairchild2]

21 minutes ago, James E. Welch said:

I'm not posting to start a debate. I hope that was clear in my post. I know there are preferences and variables. This was about being unsatisfied with my saw purchase and finding out that it was a blade issue. I just wanted to share that sometimes it's something simple. 

Nope, no debate, you made that clear for sure my friend. I was just saying that I had similar issues and observations.

Remember Occum's Razor simply states that the simplest explanation is preferable to one that is more complex. 

[Dave Monk]

I have a Pegas and a Hegner. I use Pegas blades most of the time but use Super Sharps when doing inlays.  I very seldom break a blade on my Pegas but do more often on my Hegner. Where were you Pegas blades breaking?

[MarieC]

35 minutes ago, Dave Monk said:

I have a Pegas and a Hegner. I use Pegas blades most of the time but use Super Sharps when doing inlays.  I very seldom break a blade on my Pegas but do more often on my Hegner. Where were you Pegas blades breaking?

Dave, what are "super sharps"  I have never heard of them....mc

[OCtoolguy]

I just got re-started in marquetry. When I took the class about 8 years ago, the instructor said he was buying all of his blades, 2/0 not reversed, from an outfit that sold watchmaking supplies. So, I bought a gross of them along with some numbered drill bits to size. Anyway, I'm using my Hegner to re-learn how to cut the thin veneer. I haven't broken any blades as of yet but I'm doing my best to "sneak up" on the tension. It doesn't take much with those tiny blades. I'm not sure if there is really any difference between the blade makers. I really think it's all in the learning curve. The blades I'm using really have no name other than the supplier and that was Otto something. I can't recall now. They no longer sell blades. Once I found the Pegas blades, I've not bought any others. JMHO.

 

[OCtoolguy]

I just recalled the name, it is Otto Frei. But after checking on them, they no longer handle anything related to scrolling or fret sawing.

 

[James E. Welch]

1 hour ago, Dave Monk said:

I have a Pegas and a Hegner. I use Pegas blades most of the time but use Super Sharps when doing inlays.  I very seldom break a blade on my Pegas but do more often on my Hegner. Where were you Pegas blades breaking?

Everywhere. Sometimes the top, sometimes the bottom, sometimes the middle. They're just real brittle. Someone mentions on Facebook that maybe I got a bad batch. 

[Scrappile]

Get real use to cutting and tension with the FD blades and the saw.  Then try the Pegas blades again.  I experienced the same, but for some reason all of a sudden I was able to use the Pegas blades.  I use both now. FD' are stiffer than Pagas, And for me Pegas will break easier, but not often enough to bother me.  That was my experience anyway.

[OCtoolguy]

36 minutes ago, James E. Welch said:

Everywhere. Sometimes the top, sometimes the bottom, sometimes the middle. They're just real brittle. Someone mentions on Facebook that maybe I got a bad batch. 

That has happened in the past and they were replaced. Call your supplier.

[crupiea]

I am a flying dutchman fan.  Bought some pegas and they broke a lot for me too.
Just seemed like they were slightly more brittle or something,  not sure but I really didnt care for them as much as the others. 

[kmmcrafts]

10 hours ago, MarieC said:

Dave, what are "super sharps"  I have never heard of them....mc

They are awesome blades and last a long time, However there are no reverse teeth so they do leave the fuzzies etc. I only use them on certain thick wood applications but I know some exclusively use them.. for me they are too pricey and too much sanding for a everyday blade. I find the Pegas are just about as sharp / aggressive so I may never buy super sharps again for what I cut. I only got them to try.. they are sharp and last a while longer but not sure the price of them makes it worth it over the Pegas MGT blade.  

https://www.pswood.com/super-sharps-scroll-saw-blades/

[Dave Monk]

10 hours ago, MarieC said:

Dave, what are "super sharps"  I have never heard of them....mc

https://www.pswood.com/super-sharps-scroll-saw-blades/  When using pegas blades for inlays I don't feel like I can turn clockwise as sharp as counter clockwise. With super sharps I feel I can turn as sharp in both directions. It may be all in my head. The Super Sharps are expensive but for me they are worth it for what I am using them for. 

[kmmcrafts]

I break more blades on my Hawk / Hegner saws than I do / did on any other saw... they are just very picky about tension. The reason I believe is how long those arms are compared to the 3- 4 inch arms on a King. I have the 26" Hawks and those arms must be 30" or more long.. that blade takes a lot more stress on those long arms than they do on those short arms of a King. 

I've said it before but I almost gave up on my learning curve of the Hawk saws.. I couldn't for the life of me get it to stop breaking blades.. they are just that picky. Now I rarely break blades unless I'm running them too dull too long..

When I got my Henger I slid right into the seat with no blade breakage.. My experience between the Hawk and Hegner is the Hegner is way more forgiving on the blades.. maybe because of the shorter arms of my 18" Hegner vrs. the long arms of the 26" Hawks.

I use both FD and Pegas blades along with a few other brands.. Yes the Pegas do break easier than the others.. The sizes of the Pegas run a bit smaller too.. ( ie a #5 Pegas is like half way between a #3 and #5 of a Flying Dutchman ) Many times on the very small blades I'll run a size larger than I normally would with a FD, Olsen etc. especially with the spirals.. I normally run a 2/0 in FD, but if I use a Pegas I jump to a #1. I like the Pegas spirals but for the most part since I have a couple gross of FD I just use those no more than I use spirals these days. 

[TAIrving]

I almost never break a blade - Pegas scroll saw and Pegas blades.  Very happy with both.  

[BadBob]

58 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I break more blades on my Hawk / Hegner saws than I do / did on any other saw... they are just very picky about tension.

I have the same issue with my Hawk and smaller blades. I have to back the tension all the way of and slowly tweak it until I find the sweet spot. That is one of the reasons it is for sale.

[Bill WIlson]

I think this entire thread illustrates why it is so difficult to recommend a specific blade to new scrollers.  There are so many variables that aren't even related to the blade itself.

[James E. Welch]

I had a feeling it would devolve into a blade discussion. I'm really not advocating one over another. I wanted to tell the story of how something simple like a bad batch of blades (giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming its a bad batch) can cause major frustration. And how you should keep trying because sometimes finding that simple problem can make all the difference. 

[Gene Howe]

38 minutes ago, James E. Welch said:

I had a feeling it would devolve into a blade discussion. I'm really not advocating one over another. I wanted to tell the story of how something simple like a bad batch of blades (giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming its a bad batch) can cause major frustration. And how you should keep trying because sometimes finding that simple problem can make all the difference. 

Any discussions like this is valuable info. For me, anyway. Thanks.

[MarieC]

2 hours ago, Gene Howe said:

Any discussions like this is valuable info. For me, anyway. Thanks.

Me too.  This was a very helpful thread even if it went on a tangent.  Thanks James for starting the conversation!

[jerry walters]

Sometimes you forget what you read a while back, so always good for a refresher.

Jerry

[James E. Welch]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:34 AM, MarieC said:

Me too.  This was a very helpful thread even if it went on a tangent.  Thanks James for starting the conversation!

Thanks for the reassurance. Sometimes I wonder if I made a mistake starting a thread. For me it's never meant to be argument provoking or confrontational but some of my topics cause this nonetheless. It's good to know that it was helpful. 

[kmmcrafts]

On 8/1/2023 at 9:26 AM, James E. Welch said:

I had a feeling it would devolve into a blade discussion. I'm really not advocating one over another. I wanted to tell the story of how something simple like a bad batch of blades (giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming its a bad batch) can cause major frustration. And how you should keep trying because sometimes finding that simple problem can make all the difference. 

I'd say it's not a bad batch of blades IF, you're only experiencing it on the Hegner and not on the King.. More like a picky saw needing a more precise tension.. in other words a nice way to say user error .. No worries though most of us have been there.. some of us twice.. ie I learned to saw on easy to use ( tensioning ) saws.. then I had to re-learn on the Hawk saws again.. 

I've seen on other forums, and probably even did this myself back in the day complaining how Hawk and Hegners are crap saws because I didn't know how to use it correctly.. been so bad with others that they've sold their saws to go back to a DeWalt.. LOL... It took me a good maybe year of switching back and forth from the DeWalt or Excalibur to the Hawk before it finally clicked what was finally right. I'm now thankful I am not a person to give up easily LOL.. Love these saws now.. however a EX type saw will always have a spot in my shop too as I like to use that different style cutting from time to time.. 

[Jim Blume]

I tried the Pegas blades on my Seyco and Pegas, and no matter what I did, I continued to break blades. I always try to determine what it was that I was doing wrong before I blame the blades. I then tried the Pegas blades on my old Type 1 Dewalt and while I still broke a few here and there, it was not as often. It came to my attention that the Pegas are tempered harder than other brands and with the Dewalt I was able to sneak up on the tensioning. 

But in my opinion, because the blades are tempered harder, they may also be more brittle and the real reason I was breaking blades is that I am a bottom feeder and tend to slightly bend the blades as I place them into the pilot hole. I tried top feeding on a project and didn't seem to break as many but still snapped a few which as we all know can be nerve racking to say the least.

While I did like the Pegas Modified Geometry blades, I went back to using Flying Dutchman and that solved my problem. I still won't say that it is the blade that is or was the problem however. It seems to have something to do with the tensioning, or the way I saw.

The answer? Try a variety of methods and brands and whatever works best for you is the best way....no matter what anyone else says.