Detail Sanders

[OCtoolguy]

3 hours ago, BadBob said:

I looked at harbor freight and did not see a tool that looked like a MultiMax knockoff.

I think some of us have completely different ideas about what detail sanding is.

I have made some pretty intricate things and hate sanding so I use the Dremel MultiMax to get in the hard to reach places. I also use a lot of my wife's nail file emery boards. The Dremel tool also so a great job of cutting in places where a saw won't work. I bought the one I have when we first moved into our mobile home and there was no medicine cabinet. So we bought a cheap one and I was able to inset it into the side of the cabinet that is in the bathroom. With that fine vibratory saw blade, I was able to lay out a line and "jab" the saw blade in and then just follow the line the whole rectangular perimeter of the box. It worked great and left a very nice edge that required no sanding or clean up. J T, at one time I had the Fein multi tool too. It was very expensive in it's day.

 

[BadBob]

10 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

I have made some pretty intricate things and hate sanding so I use the Dremel MultiMax to get in the hard to reach places. I also use a lot of my wife's nail file emery boards. The Dremel tool also so a great job of cutting in places where a saw won't work. I bought the one I have when we first moved into our mobile home and there was no medicine cabinet. So we bought a cheap one and I was able to inset it into the side of the cabinet that is in the bathroom. With that fine vibratory saw blade, I was able to lay out a line and "jab" the saw blade in and then just follow the line the whole rectangular perimeter of the box. It worked great and left a very nice edge that required no sanding or clean up. J T, at one time I had the Fein multi tool too. It was very expensive in it's day.

 

So, a Dremel Multi-Max is the same type of tool as what harbor freight calls an Oscillating Multi-Tool.

These are pretty large for what I would call detail sanding. I thought detail sanding was something on the order of sanding internal cuts on a Victorian fretwork piece or an intricate ornament.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

19 minutes ago, BadBob said:

So, a Dremel Multi-Max is the same type of tool as what harbor freight calls an Oscillating Multi-Tool.

These are pretty large for what I would call detail sanding. I thought detail sanding was something on the order of sanding internal cuts on a Victorian fretwork piece or an intricate ornament.

Not really. As I said they all come with a triangle sanding head and that point of the triangle gives you 3 positions to sand tight corners and because it oscillates it does all the work. They are handy but I have been using the flat blades more as Ray talked about. 

 

https://www.acmetools.com/fein-multimaster-mm-500-start-q-oscillating-multi-tool-72295264090/400229002982.html?msclkid=243c2d88356511b0a7a448eab787da31&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping-National-Search Only-Profit Margin Target-41-43&utm_term=4579946971265060&utm_content=Profit Margin 41% - 43%

[kmmcrafts]

5 hours ago, BadBob said:

OK, I give up. What are you calling a detail sander?

Well, maybe I don't need a detail sander.. I'm not sure the meaning of a detail sander.. I mentioned above that I wanted to sand tight spots on the praying hands clock that I had a big order for.. the random orbital 5" sander I have does great on the top and around part way down the sides but I cannot get too close to the bottom of the clocks feet.. so basically I was looking for something that'd get into the tighter areas closer to the feet of the clock down where it gets close to meeting the base of the clock... Probably the little mouse type sander would work at least better than the RO sander..

For inside fretwork cutouts I just glue sandpaper to a old saw blade and have at it with my saw IF I need to sand in them for some reason.. I suppose that could have also been done with the clocks too.. but since it's around the outside edge of the clock the RO sander did great other than down closer to the feet of the clock. 

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, BadBob said:

So, a Dremel Multi-Max is the same type of tool as what harbor freight calls an Oscillating Multi-Tool.

These are pretty large for what I would call detail sanding. I thought detail sanding was something on the order of sanding internal cuts on a Victorian fretwork piece or an intricate ornament.

I suppose that it can be anything you want it to be Bob. But, in my case, the triangular tip on this sander gets in many small places. That other detail sander that is shown would be nice to have but I think it might be very expensive. I've got an old Phillips cordless toothbrush that I have thinking about making into a small detail sander. There is a video on youtube on how to do about it. Not very powerful but it might be just right for sanding very delicate things.

 

[MarieC]

Almost all the very fine sanding I do, I use a Foredom rotary tool with multiple hand pieces that I can use with pretty much any Dremel or Kutzall burrs/sanding items or others.  I bought mine on craigslist but here is an example of it:  https://www.woodcraft.com/products/foredom-5200-deluxe-kit?gclid=CjwKCAiA04arBhAkEiwAuNOsIoedfaJnI9NNuSpZ8scwF4ufXxUUWvxhVWNJaHfOJ_fUMKRWAxL2zRoC8qEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I also have a multi tool but it is so bulky for some of my fine work that I have trouble using it.  My favorite sanders are these EZ lock by dremel: 

 

They are like minnie mop sanders...they don't last too long but they have the different grits.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Kevin rarely do I have a problem sanding those areas with my bloc sander because I round over the edges. If I ever have to sand something like that I just wrap some sandpaper and do it by hand. When you scroll the wood should be sanded ready to go. That is the beauty of scrollsaw blades. You do not sand inside your fret cuts so why do you need to sand the outside edges because you used the same blades. I need to sand because I route and no router bit can match the smoothness of a scrollsaw blade. But a few minutes with my porta Cable bloc sander and I am good to go When I route my bases and put a decorative edge I just hand sand with sandpaper rolled up.  I have never used my detailed sander on a scrollsawn piece in my life. As I said if I need a small area sanded I hand sand. Takes less time than break out a detailed sander. To me they are not worth the money for scrollsawing. Other jobs yes they are needed. just my opinion.  People using those flap sander on fret work I would be afraid to breaking pieces. That would never happen with my work. Flap sander are great for intarsia work or even puzzles that many make.

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Scrappile]

Have you tried any of these?  I have read mixed review about them but might be worth a try.

https://www.artcraftersonline.com/everything-else

[kmmcrafts]

Maybe overkill but I have always sanded the surface and the outer profile down to 320 and sometimes 400 grit paper.. I have yet had a scroll saw blade that leaves that smooth of an surface.. It's not super rough either but not smooth like I make the surface.. FD blades do leave a smoother surface than the Pegas do but not by enough to the point that I wouldn't need to sand the surface down some.. at least that is how I have always done it.. maybe I'm overkill on the sanding.. had many people mention how smooth it feels to the touch.. so I've just always done that.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

10 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Maybe overkill but I have always sanded the surface and the outer profile down to 320 and sometimes 400 grit paper.. I have yet had a scroll saw blade that leaves that smooth of an surface.. It's not super rough either but not smooth like I make the surface.. FD blades do leave a smoother surface than the Pegas do but not by enough to the point that I wouldn't need to sand the surface down some.. at least that is how I have always done it.. maybe I'm overkill on the sanding.. had many people mention how smooth it feels to the touch.. so I've just always done that.

definetly overkill. If you could feel the surface on my work you would love it. Not bragging but I have gotten lots of compliments how the wood feels, Projects like my horn project next to the praying hand clock can not sand outside edges and yet the cut from the blade actually shows off the flecks in the oak. I kid you not. Anyone sands wood past 220 grit is wasting their time. Do not forget you have to build to get to 400 grit. You just do not sand with 400 grit. You are all about time I am surprised.  Listen I am not saying you are wrong in what you are doing , it just the way you have been doing it so continue. But you can cut time for sure in the sanding dept.

Edited November 26, 2023 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

6 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Have you tried any of these?  I have read mixed review about them but might be worth a try.

https://www.artcraftersonline.com/everything-else

Have not used the Pegas brand of these but years ago I tried some other brand.. maybe Olsen? and they worked pretty good.. But I'm too cheap to buy these.. since I can make my own from a old saw blade and some 3M spray adhesive and just glue the cut strips of sandpaper to each side of the old blade.. works just the same and possibly better as it has the strip of metal ( the blade ) to make it a bit more rigid.. 

Whatever the old brand was I used back in the day.. the plastic ends was pretty thick and wouldn't mount in some of my saws.. like the Hawk with the barrel clamp and the EX slot in the blade chuck was too narrow.. I think I used them in my DeWalt but it barely fit.  

[kmmcrafts]

3 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

definetly overkill. If you could feel the surface on my work you would love it. Not bragging but I have gotten lots of compliments how the wood feels, Projects like my horn project next to the praying hand clock can not sand outside edges and yet the cut from the blade actually shows off the flecks in the oak. I kid you not. Anyone sands wood past 220 grit is wasting their time. Do not forget you have to build to get to 400 grit. You just do not sand with 400 grit. You are all about time I am surprised.  

Yeah I start off sanding with like 180, 240 and then usually stop at 320.. Not all about time.. however I don't want to lollygag either but quality does matter too, LOL..

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Just now, kmmcrafts said:

Yeah I start off sanding with like 180, 240 and then usually stop at 320.. Not all about time.. however I don't want to lollygag either but quality does matter too, LOL..

Go for it. I am all about quality in everything I make. 

[kmmcrafts]

3 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Go for it. I am all about quality in everything I make. 

I didn't always sand them like this until one day I had a small defect in a project.. and I ended up sanding out the defect.. turned out a lot nicer by sanding it smoother than the saw blade made it and really made a big difference in the overall project.. ever since then I just sand the profile and face and back surface down to 320..

Your work is top notch JT, I was never saying it wasn't.. It's just one of the processes I do because I did it once and that's how I liked it.. and that's how I'm going to continue to do it.. even if it has to be hand sanded without a detail sander.. Obviously some clocks do not have a easy sanding surface as you mentioned.. The saw blade is as good as it get with those type clocks.. but the ones like the prayer clock or similar I sand them..

There is no right or wrong way it's just the way I like to do it.. Does it really "need it" I guess not.. just that little extra I like to do because there is a visible and a feel to the touch difference. 

[BadBob]

11 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Well, maybe I don't need a detail sander.. I'm not sure the meaning of a detail sander.. I mentioned above that I wanted to sand tight spots on the praying hands clock that I had a big order for.. the random orbital 5" sander I have does great on the top and around part way down the sides but I cannot get too close to the bottom of the clocks feet.. so basically I was looking for something that'd get into the tighter areas closer to the feet of the clock down where it gets close to meeting the base of the clock... Probably the little mouse type sander would work at least better than the RO sander..

For inside fretwork cutouts I just glue sandpaper to a old saw blade and have at it with my saw IF I need to sand in them for some reason.. I suppose that could have also been done with the clocks too.. but since it's around the outside edge of the clock the RO sander did great other than down closer to the feet of the clock. 

Make a flap sander by cutting a slot in a 1/4 inch dowel and insert a stripof sandpaper in it. Mount this in a drill. I find this to be so useful that I keep an old drill with a piece of sanding belt ready to go.

I find diamond needle files handy for very tight places. Harbor freight has some cheap but they are fairly coarse. Amazon has a lot of them.

I have a set of Japanese finger files that I find very useful.

I would do all the sanding before assembly.

 

[BadBob]

12 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Not really. As I said they all come with a triangle sanding head and that point of the triangle gives you 3 positions to sand tight corners and because it oscillates it does all the work. They are handy but I have been using the flat blades more as Ray talked about. 

 

https://www.acmetools.com/fein-multimaster-mm-500-start-q-oscillating-multi-tool-72295264090/400229002982.html?msclkid=243c2d88356511b0a7a448eab787da31&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping-National-Search Only-Profit Margin Target-41-43&utm_term=4579946971265060&utm_content=Profit Margin 41% - 43%

The Harbor freight tools come with the triangle sanding attachment. I have one, and I have never found a use for the sanding attachment. My daughter used it once to get into the corners while refinishing some hardwood floors.

[kmmcrafts]

4 hours ago, BadBob said:

Make a flap sander by cutting a slot in a 1/4 inch dowel and insert a stripof sandpaper in it. Mount this in a drill. I find this to be so useful that I keep an old drill with a piece of sanding belt ready to go.

I find diamond needle files handy for very tight places. Harbor freight has some cheap but they are fairly coarse. Amazon has a lot of them.

I have a set of Japanese finger files that I find very useful.

I would do all the sanding before assembly.

 

Not sure why I never thought of that for woodwork stuff.. I do this in the auto repair for cleaning out the drive shaft for new U-joints etc. Or steering knuckles for wheel bearings...

[OCtoolguy]

I just ran across this setup on Amazon and think I'll buy it. It's for the Multi-max and other sanders of the same design. It has sanding pads that are smaller in size and looks like they'd fit in smaller places. And lots of paper to go with. Not a bad price for all that's included. 

Here is an updated version of the links

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BPJ1M71L/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B6ZRGWT3/

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by OCtoolguy

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, OCtoolguy said:

I just ran across this setup on Amazon and think I'll buy it. It's for the Multi-max and other sanders of the same design. It has sanding pads that are smaller in size and looks like they'd fit in smaller places. And lots of paper to go with. Not a bad price for all that's included. 

https://www.amazon.com/Oscillating-Triangle-Multitool-Sandpaper-Finishing/dp/B0BPJ1M71L/ref=sr_1_29?hvadid=177778243140&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031544&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6345072007052020978&hvtargid=kwd-11946245441&hydadcr=1645_9901543&keywords=dremel+multi+max+accessories&qid=1701033252&sr=8-29

And then there is this.

https://www.amazon.com/Oscillating-Triangle-Multitool-Sandpaper-Finishing/dp/B0BPJ1M71L/ref=sr_1_29?hvadid=177778243140&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9031544&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=6345072007052020978&hvtargid=kwd-11946245441&hydadcr=1645_9901543&keywords=dremel+multi+max+accessories&qid=1701033252&sr=8-29

Thanks, That does look like a good deal... Your second link is the same as the first?

[OCtoolguy]

Thanks Kevin, first mistake this year. Try it again.

 

[BadBob]

I wish someone would show me how you use one of these oscillating tools to sand you scroll saw projects.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

4 hours ago, BadBob said:

I wish someone would show me how you use one of these oscillating tools to sand you scroll saw projects.

Sorry won't be me. never use it for that and never will. I wish someone would show a photo or 2 of where on a scollsaw piece of work it might be used. 

[Wichman]

On 11/25/2023 at 4:36 PM, kmmcrafts said:

Well, maybe I don't need a detail sander.. I'm not sure the meaning of a detail sander.. I mentioned above that I wanted to sand tight spots on the praying hands clock that I had a big order for.. the random orbital 5" sander I have does great on the top and around part way down the sides but I cannot get too close to the bottom of the clocks feet.. so basically I was looking for something that'd get into the tighter areas closer to the feet of the clock down where it gets close to meeting the base of the clock... Probably the little mouse type sander would work at least better than the RO sander..

For inside fretwork cutouts I just glue sandpaper to a old saw blade and have at it with my saw IF I need to sand in them for some reason.. I suppose that could have also been done with the clocks too.. but since it's around the outside edge of the clock the RO sander did great other than down closer to the feet of the clock. 

For that area I would use a Dremel drum sander. There are sanding drum available to 600 grit, so you would be able to match your 320 grit primary sanding.

For intricate inside fretwork I either use the saw blade as I'm cutting or if I miss the defect while cutting I will use a diamond bead reamer for the Dremel.   https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018MNCZ4K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These are also useful in cleaning up small pilot holes to make threading the blade easier.

 

[Wichman]

10 hours ago, BadBob said:

I wish someone would show me how you use one of these oscillating tools to sand you scroll saw projects.

If you have glue squeeze out on a 90 degree line the flat sander can get in close to clean up the edge. The flat sanders aren't very useful for sanding an entire project, but rather for fixing details.

When I made the vanity tray I missed a spot on the tray, the oscillating tool allowed me to fix it without disassembly

On the fancy wand with a crystal the small flat detail sander allowed me to sand both the inside and outside of the end and keep it flat and square.

The big advantage the oscillating tool has is that it won't grab the piece and throw it across the shop.

 

     

[kmmcrafts]

After watching some youtube on the multi tool as a sander.. I'm not interested in it as a sander.. pretty neat tool and might still get one but as a sander it's not a great tool from the reviews I read. They say it leaves lots of swirl marks.. That is the issue I had with the little mouse sander thing I have.. I now remember why I quit using it..