EX-21 help needed - Urgent

[Bill WIlson]

14 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

@Bill WIlson, did you fix your saw? I've been waiting to hear.

Patiently waiting for the part to arrive.  I'm expecting it any day now.

[Bill WIlson]

Still waiting...albeit a little less patiently.  I placed the order, on-line, with Seyco on Thanksgiving morning, so I didn't expect it to get here Monday.  I called them today, just to make certain that it shipped.  The CS rep told me the order should have gone in the mail Monday AM, as they were not in on Friday after Thanksgiving.  I was hoping it would make it today, but I guess I'll have to keep patiently waiting.  

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Bill WIlson said:

Still waiting...albeit a little less patiently.  I placed the order, on-line, with Seyco on Thanksgiving morning, so I didn't expect it to get here Monday.  I called them today, just to make certain that it shipped.  The CS rep told me the order should have gone in the mail Monday AM, as they were not in on Friday after Thanksgiving.  I was hoping it would make it today, but I guess I'll have to keep patiently waiting.  

Have you ever noticed, these things always happen before, during or just after a holiday? ALWAYS!

 

[Bill WIlson]

19 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

Have you ever noticed, these things always happen before, during or just after a holiday? ALWAYS!

 

I think it's an addendum to Murphy's Law.

[BadBob]

20 hours ago, OCtoolguy said:

Have you ever noticed, these things always happen before, during or just after a holiday? ALWAYS!

Yes, every time I have had a problem with my scroll saw, it has happened at this time of year. It is what convinced me that I needed two saws.

[Bill WIlson]

Well, bad news.  It wasn't the bottom rocker arm bellows.  Indeed, that part had practically disintegrated, but I received the replacement today and installed it.  No change.  Still get the loud banging noise.

I called Seyco and talked to a fellow.  I told him what I had done so far and he informed me that the bottom bellows is completely non-functional.  He said he doesn't know why they even put a bellows on the bottom arm.  Anywho, he had me check a couple things.  He asked me if I could take a video and send it to him, but I don't have cell reception where I live, so no-go on that.  Non of the obvious possibilities seem to be my problem.  I'm waiting on a return call from Ray Seymour, himself, to see if he can diagnose the problem.

I'm reaching a point where if I don't get some resolution soon, I'm going to be in trouble.  I gotta start thinking about my options.

[Sycamore67]

Why not take a video and send by email. ?

[OCtoolguy]

Have you tried rotating, adjusting the motor? I recall that when I adjusted mine to ease the aggressiveness that when I took it too far, it did start a banging until I backed it off. Maybe you need to try adjusting yours. Just a guess. When something suddenly starts banging, it usually means that something broke. If you have removed the side cover on your saw and verified that nothing appears to have broken, it will have to come apart. You've inspected the mechanisms on the front of the saw but it could still be a broken bolt or screw in the rear where it connects to the motor. That's what it sounds like to me. Good luck and please inform us of what you find.

 

[kmmcrafts]

Interesting on his thought process of that bellows doing nothing, because when it's not there it bangs on the inside of that tube.. it's there for a reason trust me I know because I left it out on my saw the first time I rebuilt it.. had to take it all back apart just to put that bellows back on.. and shortly after that someone here posted about the same type of issue and it was their problem too.. I assume you maybe talked to Mike? .. Ray knows his stuff because he has rebuilt and worked on these saws for years.. so hopefully he can diagnose it over the phone. I was sure that was your issue when you said it was still running fine other than noisey and that it sounded like it was up front of the saw.. 

You should be able to make a video without cell service.. but you wouldn't be able to send it until you can get to an area with service or connect to wifi..

 

[kmmcrafts]

Ray is correct about the motor rotating but not so much about the motor rotating itself.. as it should be bolted down tight.. I would be more apt to say.. make sure the upper arm is the same distance from the table top at both ends.. These saws are known for that back knob on top at the back of the saw to get worn threads and they'll start spinning on their own.. and that will make the saw noisy too from running out of alignment.. I would say double check that.. For some reason I thought you already mentioned that you checked that.. but if not that would be one of the first things to look at.. then the bellows , LOL.. 

Still blows me away that guy you talked to said the bellows does nothing.. guess it shows me how much knowledge he has on these saws, LOL  

 

[rafairchild2]

How many folks with an Excal have adjusted the motor rotation but had to remove the bolts so you could then rotate further?  I am rotated as far as I can go with the OEM setup, but think my blade is still too aggressive.  If I remove the bolts and then move to the next rotation point would I be able to cut down on some of the blade movement?

I have the arm to table pretty much level front to back and have rotated the motor to the 'stop'.  However, when I place a board behind my blade, it still bounces quite a bit.  I think more than an 1/8".

[kmmcrafts]

5 hours ago, rafairchild2 said:

How many folks with an Excal have adjusted the motor rotation but had to remove the bolts so you could then rotate further?  I am rotated as far as I can go with the OEM setup, but think my blade is still too aggressive.  If I remove the bolts and then move to the next rotation point would I be able to cut down on some of the blade movement?

I have the arm to table pretty much level front to back and have rotated the motor to the 'stop'.  However, when I place a board behind my blade, it still bounces quite a bit.  I think more than an 1/8".

Meee.... I had to move them twice to get it to finally move enough to get the smoothest spot.. maybe it was three times.. I know I tried three times to see where I could find the best spot.. I'm not sure where I ended up finding the best location at but yes.. I have moved the bolts to the other set of holes at least twice. 

Not sure how you do it or how it's supposed to be done in the manual but I loosen the bolts just loose enough to be able to move the motor with a little resistance and then I run the saw on low while spinning the motor to see where it looks to be the less blade movement then I tighten it all up once I find the sweet spot..

[Scrappile]

6 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Meee.... I had to move them twice to get it to finally move enough to get the smoothest spot.. maybe it was three times.. I know I tried three times to see where I could find the best spot.. I'm not sure where I ended up finding the best location at but yes.. I have moved the bolts to the other set of holes at least twice. 

Not sure how you do it or how it's supposed to be done in the manual but I loosen the bolts just loose enough to be able to move the motor with a little resistance and then I run the saw on low while spinning the motor to see where it looks to be the less blade movement then I tighten it all up once I find the sweet spot..

If you are just moving the bolt to a different hole,, I don't think that will help much...   I know what you mean.

[rafairchild2]

8 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

If you are just moving the bolt to a different hole,, I don't think that will help much...   I know what you mean.

What I mean is, I have turned it as far as I can in the current holes.  I would have to remove the bolts, turn it further until the 'new' holes appear, put the bolts back in and now I have another 2 or so inches to rotate.

[Scrappile]

2 minutes ago, rafairchild2 said:

What I mean is, I have turned it as far as I can in the current holes.  I would have to remove the bolts, turn it further until the 'new' holes appear, put the bolts back in and now I have another 2 or so inches to rotate.

I was just poking a little fun, I and I am sure everyone on here knows.  I just having a little fun.  I have a weird sense of humor.

[rafairchild2]

2 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I was just poking a little fun, I and I am sure everyone on here knows.  I just having a little fun.  I have a weird sense of humor.

No worries.  I have to switch my mind on the weekends/ online vs. my work hours.  I am in a military environment with officers from 31 nations.  Although we have fun it's a serious environment being conscious of other cultures. Hard to turn off at times. So don't mind me.

[OCtoolguy]

When I did mine, I ran into the same problem as you so I took all 3 bolts out and ran the saw on low and turned the motor in both directions until I got it to the best spot. That's how I know about it making the knocking noise if you go too far. No damage was done and I got mine (both saws) tuned to the optimal setting. I used the foot pedal to run the saw while holding the motor in both hands to keep it stable. 

[Bill WIlson]

Well, I have spoken a couple times to Ray today.  He suggested and I checked all of the things you folks have mentioned.  Motor is tight and I haven't touched it in a few years.  Ray confirmed the non-functioning bottom bellows, but I admit that in theory it made a lot of sense.  That is why I was so hopeful that it was the problem, especially when I saw how it had disintegrated.

Anyway, for the time being, Ray is stumped.  We went through everything he could think of.  I had taken the saw off the stand and put on a work table, to make it easier to work on and harder to lose little parts.  Ray suggested re-installing it on the stand and going through the checks again.  I did that and called him back to say there was no difference or improvement.  One thing I did notice though, I grasped the frame of the saw at all of the pivot points.  I felt a lot of vibration on the frame where the top pivot arm is.  I noticed none at the bottom front or in the back.  I told Ray that.  He's going to confer with one of his techs and I'll get in touch with him again next week.

In the meantime, I've taken the advice to acquire a back-up saw.  The Dewalt is on sale for $399, w/o stand.  I ordered one from Amazon this morning and it should get here by next weekend.  That makes my schedule a little tight, but I think it's still doable.  It doesn't sound like the Ex fix is going to be a quick one.

As for the video, that remains a possibility.  Next time I speak to Ray, I'll mention it and get specifics on just what he would like to see.  Right now, I'm not counting on the EX being operational in order to finish Christmas projects, so the pressure is off....a little.  Wish me luck and thanks for all the advice and replies to this thread.

[dgman]

51 minutes ago, Bill WIlson said:

Well, I have spoken a couple times to Ray today.  He suggested and I checked all of the things you folks have mentioned.  Motor is tight and I haven't touched it in a few years.  Ray confirmed the non-functioning bottom bellows, but I admit that in theory it made a lot of sense.  That is why I was so hopeful that it was the problem, especially when I saw how it had disintegrated.

Anyway, for the time being, Ray is stumped.  We went through everything he could think of.  I had taken the saw off the stand and put on a work table, to make it easier to work on and harder to lose little parts.  Ray suggested re-installing it on the stand and going through the checks again.  I did that and called him back to say there was no difference or improvement.  One thing I did notice though, I grasped the frame of the saw at all of the pivot points.  I felt a lot of vibration on the frame where the top pivot arm is.  I noticed none at the bottom front or in the back.  I told Ray that.  He's going to confer with one of his techs and I'll get in touch with him again next week.

In the meantime, I've taken the advice to acquire a back-up saw.  The Dewalt is on sale for $399, w/o stand.  I ordered one from Amazon this morning and it should get here by next weekend.  That makes my schedule a little tight, but I think it's still doable.  It doesn't sound like the Ex fix is going to be a quick one.

As for the video, that remains a possibility.  Next time I speak to Ray, I'll mention it and get specifics on just what he would like to see.  Right now, I'm not counting on the EX being operational in order to finish Christmas projects, so the pressure is off....a little.  Wish me luck and thanks for all the advice and replies to this thread.

Good luck Bill, we’re all rooting for you!

[BadBob]

I have been on the phone several times with Ray and others at Seyco. They are great with anything mechanical. I learned that they don't know much beyond the straightforward things with anything electronic. I suspect that when they have a saw in the shop, They replace electrical parts until they are fixed or determine that isn't the problem. I had a bad motor, and they could not tell me how to test it. It's a DC motor, so all I had to do was take it out and hook it to a battery. A DeWalt or other 18V or greater battery will spin the motor. So will a car battery.

I had a knocking problem several years ago and spent much time on the phone with Ray. I wound up replacing everything in the saw that was mechanical to get the saw working in as short a time as possible.

[kmmcrafts]

If it's been used quite a lot it could be the one bigger needle bearing and sleeve in the rocker arm part at the back of the saw.. I say that because that is the bearing that takes most of the abuse and each time I've taken one apart there has been virtually no grease and there was a bunch of powdery looking like rust that coated the sleeve and bearing.. I don't think this is rust but rather a component of the dried up grease.. 

When Rolf rebuilt a saw for a friend he found the same thing.. so I say it's probably one of the common issues.. Here is a link to my rebuild and Rolf posted his photos on this topic too.. maybe it'll give you an idea of what's inside the saw etc.. 

 

[Bill WIlson]

I talked briefly to Ray again last evening.  He called me to make a suggestion to take apart the front, top rocker arm and grease the bearings, as a start.  I suspect we'll work our way around, doing the same thing to the bottom rocker arm and eventually the rear rocker & cam assy.  That way we may be able to isolate where the problem really is, presuming it's a bearing.  Grease may help the problem for now, but I can then take steps to get parts to eventually replace them.

I took a couple of very short videos this morning.  When Ray called back last night, I asked him just what he wanted to see in a video and he told me a shot of the rear cam action as well as a side view of the front rocker arms.  I'll try to send them to him tomorrow, when I am someplace I can get a cell connection.

[kmmcrafts]

I find it odd that he wants to start at the top arm.. my experience has always been the bottom bearings due to all the fine sawdust falling down there.. but he is the man to know more than I... it'll be interesting to see how this pans out.. 

[Bill WIlson]

I think I misspoke.  I'm going to start with the bottom arm, because that is where I felt the vibration in the frame.

[Bill WIlson]

Everyone is either getting tired of this saga by now or waiting with bated breath for the latest update. 

For the latter group, here's the latest;

This morning I sent Ray videos of the 2 spots on the saw, as per his instructions.  He called my house this morning, but I didn't get his message until this evening.  I spoke with him and his recommendation is to replace the drive link assembly.  He does not believe that either of the front rocker arms is the problem.  He believes this is the fastest and cheapest way to come to a resolution.  I guess that is true, provided the drive links are actually the problem. 

I ordered the part and depending on when my replacement saw arrives, it may be after Christmas before I get to tearing into this.  I still believe the EX is a great saw, but am a little surprised and disappointed that it's giving me this trouble.  I had my old Dewalt longer than I've owned this saw and it never gave me any problems, other than having to replace the blade clamps once or twice.

Anyway, this may be the last update for awhile.  As soon as my back-up arrives, I need to turn & burn on Christmas projects to get caught up, so repair of the EX will take a back seat. 

Thanks again for the interest.