Regarding leaving blades tensioned when not in use.....

[OCtoolguy]

The subject of releasing the tension on your saws when they are not being used has been talked about here a couple of times. I'm of the school that thinks releasing tension is a good idea. Anyway, after perusing the new Facebook site "A Saw Subject" and reading a lot of great info on Hegner saws, I ran across this so I'm posting the picture and the accompanying comment. This may concern only Hegner saws but I think it could relate to most saws. Any of you folks who are using Hegner saws, you might pay heed to this. Also, there is a ton of great info on that site on all the different Hegner saws over the years and what to look for if you are buying a used one. 

 

[Scrappile]

Hummm, I think I leave mine without tension most the time because when I stop the saw the first thing I do is release the tension because I am either going to change blades or move to a new hole to start sawing again.  But this will make me double check because I know with no tension nothing will be hurt whether this is true or not. So why not release the tension just in case.  Could that be out of alignment because the bushings are worn??  Could be another cause.  

[OCtoolguy]

15 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Hummm, I think I leave mine without tension most the time because when I stop the saw the first thing I do is release the tension because I am either going to change blades or move to a new hole to start sawing again.  But this will make me double check because I know with no tension nothing will be hurt whether this is true or not. So why not release the tension just in case.  Could that be out of alignment because the bushings are worn??  Could be another cause.  

Exactly my feelings too. It costs nothing to release the tension. The springs on a car begin to sag after having the weight sitting on them year in and year out. Paul, take the time to go to this Facebook site and do some reading. There is a lot of info on how to maintain and adjust all the stuff on the Hegners. I was aware of some of it but not all. Very interesting.

 

[Scrappile]

2 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

Exactly my feelings too. It costs nothing to release the tension. The springs on a car begin to sag after having the weight sitting on them year in and year out. Paul, take the time to go to this Facebook site and do some reading. There is a lot of info on how to maintain and adjust all the stuff on the Hegners. I was aware of some of it but not all. Very interesting.

 

Well let's be honest cars probably get more weight as we get older.  But don't do facebook, yep I am one of those.

[Dave Monk]

Thanks for sharing. According to him I sure don't oil my saw near enough. 

[OCtoolguy]

35 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Well let's be honest cars probably get more weight as we get older.  But don't do facebook, yep I am one of those.

You're missing a lot of great stuff. You just have to know how to navigate.

[OCtoolguy]

12 minutes ago, Dave Monk said:

Thanks for sharing. According to him I sure don't oil my saw near enough. 

Yes, I picked up on that too. I've been trying to make sure I oil mine after every 10 hours but now I'll do it at each use. 

[kmmcrafts]

I think every saw I've owned states to not leave the blade tensioned.. what got me is the fact that the Hawk manual says this as does my Excalibur.. I think the DeWalt manual also stated that.. however they ship them to me in a sealed box from the factory with a blade mounted and under tension.. Maybe the manufacture should read the manual too.. LOL

I've always released the tension when leaving the saw, there has been a couple exceptions where I got interrupted and come back later to find I left the blade tensioned.. That's only been a handful of times in the last 20 years though..  

[Scrappile]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

I think every saw I've owned states to not leave the blade tensioned.. what got me is the fact that the Hawk manual says this as does my Excalibur.. I think the DeWalt manual also stated that.. however they ship them to me in a sealed box from the factory with a blade mounted and under tension.. Maybe the manufacture should read the manual too.. LOL

I've always released the tension when leaving the saw, there has been a couple exceptions where I got interrupted and come back later to find I left the blade tensioned.. That's only been a handful of times in the last 20 years though..  

Maybe they ship them that way to help keep the upper arm stationary, during transporting?  Did I use the right stationary/stationery?  The wonders of the english language... and they think everyone should learn it.  And/or/maybe they ship it in that position so it is not sticking up where it could get bent and/orbroken off easily. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Scrappile

[kmmcrafts]

10 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

Maybe they ship them that way to help keep the upper arm stationary, during transporting?  Did I use the right stationary/stationery?  The wonders of the english language... and they think everyone should learn it.  And/or/maybe they ship it in that position so it is not sticking up where it could get bent and/orbroken off easily. 

Yeah that probably makes sense.. Just that they say to not do something that they just did to a brand new saw is weird.. Do as I say not what I do, LOL.. Also you have to wonder about old saws that have been sitting in the new packaging for several years.. These saws come up on marketplace from time to time.. Heck my Hawk Ultra was new in the box still when I bought it in 2017.. the saw was purchased new according to the receipt in the box from the original buyer in December of 1998.. so what, 19 years that saw sat in the box with the blade tensioned.. But I guess who cares as the warranty on most these saws is only a year.. if it can set for 19 years it's not on them no more, LOL 

[BadBob]

It's easy and does not cost anything, so why not?

I back the blade tension off my band saws. It is much harder to do.

[rafairchild2]

11 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

...however they ship them to me in a sealed box from the factory with a blade mounted and under tension.. Maybe the manufacture should read the manual too.. LOL

 

Actually, they do this as a means to protect the arm, chuck, etc during the actual shipping process.  Being under tension reduces/eliminates movement during transit, thus reducing the potential of damage.  However, they could just as easily use more packing material to secure the arm and chuck.  I think tensioning is easier and more secure.

Now, springs do not wear from being just under tension**, they wear from constant use... as the spring undergoes repeated cycles of loading and unloading... boing, boing... or overextension or compression... the example of an automobile was used above, it is the hitting of bumps, weight added and reduced, etc. that cause wear.  Now shock absorbers reduce this wear, otherwise, your car would bounce a lot more and springs would wear/break more.

(**)I will add that keeping a spring under constant tension will induce creep which is the slow, continuous deformation of a material under a constant load. When a spring is kept under constant tension, especially if the load is near the spring's maximum capacity, the material may experience creep, causing the spring to gradually change shape over time.

To have an arm warp due to being under constant tension tells me they have cheaped out, or there is a design flaw, as the amount of pressure from a tensioned blade is not that extreme. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by rafairchild2

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, rafairchild2 said:

To have an arm warp due to being under constant tension tells me they have cheaped out, or there is a design flaw, as the amount of pressure from a tensioned blade is not that extreme. 

This was my first thought too.. My Hawk sat for nearly 20 years in its original packaging with a tensioned blade.. never did any damage and have 300 or so hours run time on it and still going like a champ.. That being said.. all the main parts of a Hawk is solid steel or aluminum.. only thing casted that I've seen is the table top.. and I'm actually not certain but it maybe solid too I can't remember.. 

I mentioned once that I didn't care for the casted arms etc of the Hegner.. dang near the whole saw is casted.. Someone told me that casting is stronger than solid metal or aluminum.. I wasn't going to argue over that because I honestly don't know facts about casting.. But I often wonder why race car motor builders etc.. always use solid billet engine blocks and rods heads etc.. sort of tells me solid metals are stronger than casted ones.. 

Not saying Hegner or any other saw is inferior.. but I've seen quite a few Hegner upper arms where the casting broke at the back of the saw by the wedge or spring area.. Never seen a hawk have anything other than a bad bearing or a worn tension cam, or wedge. It'd take a lot of proof to convince me that cast is stronger than billet.. Not saying it's not true.. I'm sure it's possible with the right casting materials.. but are those material used, LOL 

[rafairchild2]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Someone told me that casting is stronger than solid metal or aluminum.. I wasn't going to argue over that because I honestly don't know facts about casting.. But I often wonder why race car motor builders etc.. always use solid billet engine blocks and rods heads etc.. sort of tells me solid metals are stronger than casted ones.. 

 

The relative strength of cast metals compared to solid metals depends on the specific materials, their compositions, and the intended applications. It's crucial to consider factors beyond casting alone, such as the alloy, and heat treatment.

Now you mentioned solid billets for racecars, etc... Solid metals, especially those that have undergone processes like forging or rolling, can have a more uniform and refined microstructure, potentially resulting in improved mechanical properties. This is most likely why you see cars and such use them.

[OCtoolguy]

5 hours ago, BadBob said:

It's easy and does not cost anything, so why not?

I back the blade tension off my band saws. It is much harder to do.

Mine has a quick-release lever. Love it.

[Denny Knappen]

In the Pegas manual, the number one listed is "When the saw is not in use, always release tension on the blade".

[Sycamore67]

I do not understand some of the concepts being discussed.  I have no idea what "solid metal" means.  Yes, there is a difference between cast structures and wrought structures.  (Note:  I am a metallurgical engineer who worked in the production, casting and rolling of steel for 40+ years.)

I looked at my Hegner today and the weakest point in the entire machine is the blade itself.  The cross section is very small compared to anything else on the machine.  That being said, I have never had a blade break just because I left the blade tensioned.   I do not release tension on my Hegner when I am finished cutting.  I do not remember reading about a broken part on the scrollsaw which could be attributed to not releasing the tension.

I think one reason to release the tension is to reduce wear on the blade clamps.  The blade clamps seem to encounter more wear and problems than any other part of the machine.

 

[Scrappile]

36 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

I do not understand some of the concepts being discussed.  I have no idea what "solid metal" means.  Yes, there is a difference between cast structures and wrought structures.  (Note:  I am a metallurgical engineer who worked in the production, casting and rolling of steel for 40+ years.)

I looked at my Hegner today and the weakest point in the entire machine is the blade itself.  The cross section is very small compared to anything else on the machine.  That being said, I have never had a blade break just because I left the blade tensioned.   I do not release tension on my Hegner when I am finished cutting.  I do not remember reading about a broken part on the scrollsaw which could be attributed to not releasing the tension.

I think one reason to release the tension is to reduce wear on the blade clamps.  The blade clamps seem to encounter more wear and problems than any other part of the machine.

 

That is because the blade clamps have a tendency to go flying some times when a blade brakes! 

[Scrappile]

On 11/27/2023 at 5:04 PM, Dave Monk said:

Thanks for sharing. According to him I sure don't oil my saw near enough. 

I have to ask ,,, what makes this guy we are all listening to an expert?  Just curious.  I am a Facebook skeptic.. Lots of "Experts" on Facebook... so many in fact I left... I could not keep up.  But I have been wrong once, well maybe twice.. but the jury is still out on the second time

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

28 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

I have to ask ,,, what makes this guy we are all listening to an expert?  Just curious.  I am a Facebook skeptic.. Lots of "Experts" on Facebook... so many in fact I left... I could not keep up.  But I have been wrong once, well maybe twice.. but the jury is still out on the second time

I see you are a skeptic at heart. that is fine. What is nice about things is we do what we feel is fit for us. Whoever this guy is and I have not read or do I ever follow anyone on FB and never will, but he was suggesting to keep those saws running true it would be wise to apply some maintenance to them every so often Oiling it as much as Ray said is ridiculous but it is his thing so nothing wrong with that. I am sure Kevin can break down all the fault parts on all saws because from what I have read here for a few years he takes them apart and puts back together. I have had my 2 RBI saw and have never oiled or done any maintenance on them other than clean the dust off. yes I had to replace the front tension lever but that is something no matter how much oil you dump on it it will wear out. There are natural wear points on all tools ever made. A little tender love does not hurt so do it or don't do it. 

As far as releasing tension I am in the release camp because I have no idea when I will be using again and with the front tension lever it is too easy. My bandsaw is something else. It is always been told to release tension for a couple reasons and they are forming a indent on the rubber tracks if left tensioned and also strain on the bearings resting in one place. I have wanted to install a quick lever set up on that but just never did. If I ever buy a new bandsaw I will either have that installed or get one that comes with it.  

[rafairchild2]

I too am of the Periodic Preventative Maintenance and release the tension when done cohort.  But I do not sweat it if I forget once in a while.  I am a hobbyist and only make a project or two every week or so, or they are small and quick like the pull toy below. If I was running a production shop I would have planned PM days. This was ingrained in me as a child and all the years I worked in my father's medical x-ray business. So yeah.. it's stuck in me.

Still, my belief is that you take care of your tools.  Maybe that's because I am an old fart and a cheap SOB, and hate all the planned obsolescence industries today, where things are being made cheaper and less durable than they were in the 70s and 80s for example.  Because of this, a little extra TLC is probably a good idea regardless.  Even how I handle my scroll saw with Pegas chuck, although built well, I don't over-torque, nor flip it back and forth hard.

[OCtoolguy]

21 hours ago, Scrappile said:

That is because the blade clamps have a tendency to go flying some times when a blade brakes! 

Not if they are Pegas.

 

[OCtoolguy]

16 hours ago, Scrappile said:

I have to ask ,,, what makes this guy we are all listening to an expert?  Just curious.  I am a Facebook skeptic.. Lots of "Experts" on Facebook... so many in fact I left... I could not keep up.  But I have been wrong once, well maybe twice.. but the jury is still out on the second time

I am only going on the fact that he seems to be a collector and seller of recon machines and has been in touch with Hegner for much of his info. Who knows? Maybe he's all wet but I'd be inclined to believe what he has said. As for Facebook, it is what you let it be. There are very good scrollsaw and woodworking groups there. Stay away from the political and controversial posts. Choose your friends wisely. It's still a great source of info if you can just sort out the B.S. from the good stuff.

[OCtoolguy]

16 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I see you are a skeptic at heart. that is fine. What is nice about things is we do what we feel is fit for us. Whoever this guy is and I have not read or do I ever follow anyone on FB and never will, but he was suggesting to keep those saws running true it would be wise to apply some maintenance to them every so often Oiling it as much as Ray said is ridiculous but it is his thing so nothing wrong with that. I am sure Kevin can break down all the fault parts on all saws because from what I have read here for a few years he takes them apart and puts back together. I have had my 2 RBI saw and have never oiled or done any maintenance on them other than clean the dust off. yes I had to replace the front tension lever but that is something no matter how much oil you dump on it it will wear out. There are natural wear points on all tools ever made. A little tender love does not hurt so do it or don't do it. 

As far as releasing tension I am in the release camp because I have no idea when I will be using again and with the front tension lever it is too easy. My bandsaw is something else. It is always been told to release tension for a couple reasons and they are forming a indent on the rubber tracks if left tensioned and also strain on the bearings resting in one place. I have wanted to install a quick lever set up on that but just never did. If I ever buy a new bandsaw I will either have that installed or get one that comes with it.  

A couple of things here J.T. I never said anything about going crazy on oiling. I was told at some point, maybe in the owner's manual, that it was wise to drop a couple of drops of light oil on the upper and lower arm bushings after every 10 hours of use. Seems fair to me. As to the second thing, I'd be interested, with your way of thinking, just how often you change the oil in your car. If you have never done that, as your saw, I'm truly amazed that it is still running. 

 

[Sycamore67]

I follow the Hegner manual with a drop or so oil every 10 hours when I remember.

I did see the recommendation to release the tension.when done using the saw. I do not do that most of the time.  However, I often toss the blade when I am finished and do not put a new one end.