Taking a break

[Wichman]

I'll be taking a break from the village. Pattern making is such a PIA and to have multiple users misunderstand what I ask about is extremely frustrating, and I don't handle frustration well. Getting private messages "helping" with issues outside the questions I'm asking is annoying as well, I know you think you are helping, but you are not.

TTFN

[kmmcrafts]

Sorry you feel that way but in all honesty the clearer the question the better help you get. On the flipside it's also very frustrating to offer help to people when they don't communicate well either so that is a two way street. 

I get PM's almost daily with generic vage questions about saw noises or repairs of some sort.. It's really hard to diagnose a squeak when the person asking for help can't tell you if its even coming from the saw.. let alone what part of the saw might be squeaking, then they tell you they've done everything but don't say what they have done either.. if they've done everything then it should be fixed..  LOL BUT.. I'm here to offer help as best as I can.. should that person go posting a message saying my help is not helping and go on a tantrum I'm likely not going to ever offer that person help again so be careful how you treat those trying to help.. I also like to hear feedback on the advice or issue too as that helps me learn as well.. If I give advice to repair a saw and I never hear back from said person again.. not chiming back to say well that fixed it or something else fixed it.. I'm likely not going to help again..  

At the end of the day, I'm just thankful to have a place like this for those that do offer help when I need it and I'm also thankful to be able to offer help when I can. Before the internet where did we go or how did we get help like this.. for me it was a lot of trial and error.. mostly error but you only lose when you give up. 

[rjweb]

Kevin, I agree with you, some questions asked you need to ask question to try and figure what the problem is, also its a good place to hang out and read, if you or Ray would leave I am out of here, well I enjoy every ones comments, RJ

[OCtoolguy]

3 hours ago, rjweb said:

Kevin, I agree with you, some questions asked you need to ask question to try and figure what the problem is, also its a good place to hang out and read, if you or Ray would leave I am out of here, well I enjoy every ones comments, RJ

Ray who? Surely you don't mean me. I'm just a trouble maker most of the time. But, I mean well.

 

[OCtoolguy]

Kevin, I must agree with what you wrote. I'm not sure what took place to make the OP mad but I'm sure it was something that was taken the wrong way and whoever wrote meant well and was just misunderstood. Oh well, it's big world with lots of folks in it so I guess it's to be expected.

[OCtoolguy]

5 hours ago, Wichman said:

I'll be taking a break from the village. Pattern making is such a PIA and to have multiple users misunderstand what I ask about is extremely frustrating, and I don't handle frustration well. Getting private messages "helping" with issues outside the questions I'm asking is annoying as well, I know you think you are helping, but you are not.

TTFN

Maybe an alcoholic libation might be one solution.

[kmmcrafts]

6 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

Kevin, I must agree with what you wrote. I'm not sure what took place to make the OP mad but I'm sure it was something that was taken the wrong way and whoever wrote meant well and was just misunderstood. Oh well, it's big world with lots of folks in it so I guess it's to be expected.

I don't know what the story is either.. I just know that people "trying" to help should be cherished rather than criticized for trying.. I mean.. they don't have to help.. it's not a requirement.. But then when nobody helps the site as a whole gets criticized because nobody is helping.. No win situation, kind of like with a woman ask if her outfit makes her look fat.. You just can't win ..    

[Sycamore67]

One of the issues for me is the wide differences with the scrollers.  We seem to get new ones asking the same questions.  One of the things that has changed with time is people have a problem and immediately ask for a solution.  I have always tried to figure things out in my own first.  How many times do we have someone ask what blades to use before trying different ones out.  I learned which blade by trying different ones on different woods.  Too often people want a quick EASY answer or YouTube answer that involves no problem solving on their part.

Interesting, my son is a software game designer but is mechanically adept.  When in junior high, I bought a old cheap sit on lawn mower.  I had him take the engine apart and put back together including listings and valves.  The look on his face when he got it running while covered in grease was priceless.

I also see a trend of people having less mechanical ability.  I grew up taking things apart and fixing them.  Ask a kid today to fix something ???

There is and will be a huge demand for people to fix things....plumbers, electricians, handy men, car repair, etc.  I predict that they will be able to charge whatever they want and make a good living.

I do not do a lot of projects any more but do make more involved ones.  The T Rex head I posted took me months and the Model A Ford took a year.  I enjoy more complicated projects.

I enjoy the scrollsaw as it allows me to make things sitting down which has become more necessary.  I hope they keep publishing as I think it is good for people newer to the hobby.  I dropped my subscription a couple years ago because the projects were not interesting to me,  my copy got to me about 2 months after others, and the fold out patterns were a pain to copy.

Rant off !

[OCtoolguy]

31 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I don't know what the story is either.. I just know that people "trying" to help should be cherished rather than criticized for trying.. I mean.. they don't have to help.. it's not a requirement.. But then when nobody helps the site as a whole gets criticized because nobody is helping.. No win situation, kind of like with a woman ask if her outfit makes her look fat.. You just can't win ..    

You got that right. No correct answer.

 

[OCtoolguy]

17 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

One of the issues for me is the wide differences with the scrollers.  We seem to get new ones asking the same questions.  One of the things that has changed with time is people have a problem and immediately ask for a solution.  I have always tried to figure things out in my own first.  How many times do we have someone ask what blades to use before trying different ones out.  I learned which blade by trying different ones on different woods.  Too often people want a quick EASY answer or YouTube answer that involves no problem solving on their part.

Interesting, my son is a software game designer but is mechanically adept.  When in junior high, I bought a old cheap sit on lawn mower.  I had him take the engine apart and put back together including listings and valves.  The look on his face when he got it running while covered in grease was priceless.

I also see a trend of people having less mechanical ability.  I grew up taking things apart and fixing them.  Ask a kid today to fix something ???

There is and will be a huge demand for people to fix things....plumbers, electricians, handy men, car repair, etc.  I predict that they will be able to charge whatever they want and make a good living.

I do not do a lot of projects any more but do make more involved ones.  The T Rex head I posted took me months and the Model A Ford took a year.  I enjoy more complicated projects.

I enjoy the scrollsaw as it allows me to make things sitting down which has become more necessary.  I hope they keep publishing as I think it is good for people newer to the hobby.  I dropped my subscription a couple years ago because the projects were not interesting to me,  my copy got to me about 2 months after others, and the fold out patterns were a pain to copy.

Rant off !

I have to agree with you. When I started, about 8 years or so back, I asked some of the most inane questions. I have gone back and read every post in the General Scroll Sawing forum just to see what others have written and the answers to the questions that intrigued me. Well, I must admit that the questions I asked back then embarrass me now. You are correct when you say that folks want "instant gratification" to their questions. I was one of them. Now, not so much. I'd also agree that by finding things out on your own, you have not only the pride of doing it but you'll also retain what you have learned a lot longer. At our age, that becomes quite important. In my case, I think that I asked questions at times not so much for the answers but to become a part of the community and make folks learn my name and sort of who I am. I now feel like I'm a part of the community and I would be lost without it. I watch many people come on board to get one question or problem solved and we never hear from them again. That's a shame because they have missed a great opportunity to become a part of something much larger. As for the subscription to WWSC, I'll renew as I  always have and try to support the hobby in whatever small way I can.

[kmmcrafts]

May be just in my area but, I see young kids repairing things most adults can't. Whenever my phone or computer breaks or I think it's not working right.. those kids can have it working in no time.. My kids seem to take everyone's phones with dead batteries or cracked screens and repair them. Though I did teach them how to work on cars etc. too and oldest one works for the state as a heavy equipment mechanic.. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

24 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

I have to agree with you. When I started, about 8 years or so back, I asked some of the most inane questions. I have gone back and read every post in the General Scroll Sawing forum just to see what others have written and the answers to the questions that intrigued me. Well, I must admit that the questions I asked back then embarrass me now. You are correct when you say that folks want "instant gratification" to their questions. I was one of them. Now, not so much. I'd also agree that by finding things out on your own, you have not only the pride of doing it but you'll also retain what you have learned a lot longer. At our age, that becomes quite important. In my case, I think that I asked questions at times not so much for the answers but to become a part of the community and make folks learn my name and sort of who I am. I now feel like I'm a part of the community and I would be lost without it. I watch many people come on board to get one question or problem solved and we never hear from them again. That's a shame because they have missed a great opportunity to become a part of something much larger. As for the subscription to WWSC, I'll renew as I  always have and try to support the hobby in whatever small way I can.

That happens on all sites. I see this on the IAP pen turning forum I am part of. Is it annoying? After awhile you just let it go. But what I do tell all people is you are missing out. Maybe you will get an answer to your question but not the only answer. As with scrolling there is no right and wrong just methods we develop to suit our needs. Now making suggestions is all we can do. If you follow a site you become familiar with the more knowledgeable people and do trust them more so. Answering the same questions all the time gets watered down the more they get asked. Lots of info gets left out. Then there are those that ask questions that can take a book to answer properly and that is not happening. Forums have become just stops where a quick answer is supplied like google. Even this site there is no real conversations here any more. Sharing ideas goes beyond nuts and bolts and what blade to use. as I seen this on IAP where I have been a member for 19 years. I seen how the forum has changed over the years and what can be said and what can not today because we all have become so sensitive. I left this site for awhile and had some good reasons which are my own. I do not visit as often any more because as I mentioned I lost interest in scrolling but do like following at times. I put in my 2 cents when I can. I feel I am versed in many tools in a woodworking shop because I have used them over the years. Knowing all these new saws on the market is something I have no need to keep up with because I do not change saws. Found my saw and will never try any more. This is all part of the society we have become. Everyone is in such a big hurry to get to that hole in the ground is how I look at it.  

[preprius]

1 hour ago, OCtoolguy said:

Ray who? Surely you don't mean me. I'm just a trouble maker most of the time. But, I mean well.

 

I thought I was the trouble maker. Asking stuff that the saw can't do. And expecting answers. Cutting 2 inch branches with tiny blades. That is just stupid.  Also I have some off the cuff comments that might be not helpfull.

I will miss Wichmans projects. I love getting inspiration from his pictures and posts.

The creativity in this village is great. I love this site. I see newbies ideas and projects.

I feel I have not put in the effort of replying to posting recently. 

I think I need some sunshine or something just not motivated.  I can't think of new ideas.  No progress just sucks. 

[BadBob]

I have a hard time staying out of many discussions. I could write pages on this subject, but it just takes too long. You are lucky that nerve problems in my hands make me a terrible typist.

In short, If someone posts something that irritates me, I try to ignore them.

[barb.j.enders]

Sorry you feel that way Wichman.  Sometimes, the way a question is asked can be misinterpreted, which would give you the wrong answers.  I know that I have had some interesting answers to some of my questions.  And like Ray, when I read back the question, after a while, I go "Duh!!!, what was I asking?"    

Thanks to everyone for taking time to respond and help. 

[Bill WIlson]

John's right.  Any of the issues we are discussing in this thread are present in most other forums.  It's just part of human nature.  Where else but on forums (social media, in general) can we talk about this stuff with people all over the world, from all different backgrounds and levels of experience?  It's really quite remarkable, at least for those of us who can remember the days when the internet didn't exist.  

One of the challenges that go along with asking and answering questions in this sort of format is that miscommunication and/or misunderstanding is much more prevalent than what one would typically experience in personal, face to face conversations.  It's on all of us, who participate in these forums, to try and be as clear and concise as we possibly can with our questions, comments, replies and responses.  Not all of us are as accustomed to conversing on-line as we may be in person.  The dynamic is different and that affects the interpretation of our words.

We do the best we can.  Getting upset about it and bailing doesn't really help much.  Everyone has something to add to the conversation.  Even if it may be the same thing some of us have heard dozens of times, there is a good chance someone else is reading it for the first time.

[MarieC]

I will miss his work as well.  Hope he comes back soon!

I am one who has been on here for just about 1 year and have learned a ton.  I love all the different answers to my questions because I then take time to ponder the answers and come up with a good solution.  I do try to use the search tool to find topics prior to posting my questions but I don't have much luck.  Plus,  if I find an answer in the search, it might be so old that I feel a newer answer may be better. 

On a neglected note....@kmmcrafts, I found out there is an upgrade clamp for my G4 Hawk....which is being made for me by the Hawk folks in the next couple of weeks.  Thank you for your help!

[kmmcrafts]

15 minutes ago, MarieC said:

I

On a neglected note....@kmmcrafts, I found out there is an upgrade clamp for my G4 Hawk....which is being made for me by the Hawk folks in the next couple of weeks.  Thank you for your help!

You are welcome, I would always help out our regulars on here even if they don't always follow up. This site has a lot of members that just are lurkers and never post in the public forums.. many of them PM me for various questions and help.. those are the main culprits that ask a question and never follow up with me.

Had one person that sent me all kinds of photos of their Excalibur and "we" rebuilt her saw simply by her showing me a picture and I would take the photo and circle and write what to take apart and what to watch for etc.. and send it back to her, I walked her through the whole process based off of photos and short videos that she sent.. She did thank me etc. and we got it running good. Took a good few weeks as she take one thing apart and send me a photo asking what next..LOL but it was really cool to walk her through the process.. I really do enjoy helping when I can.. Just that some folks don't show any appreciation whatsoever. When / IF they come back if I remember them I'm likely not going to be as helpful, LOL

[Gene Howe]

I don't know enough to offer help. Heck, I don't know enough to ask for help.

[TAIrving]

I also subscribe to a scroll saw FaceBook forum.  It has many members and lots of discussion.  Much of the discussion is from newbies about issues which I feel I could offer constructive comments.  But then I look and see numerous comments with advice all over the map from good to clueless and I feel like one more comment will just get lost among all the others.  So I now mostly ignore the SS FB forum and come here for more focused discussions.  

[BadBob]

3 minutes ago, TAIrving said:

I also subscribe to a scroll saw FaceBook forum.  It has many members and lots of discussion.  Much of the discussion is from newbies about issues which I feel I could offer constructive comments.  But then I look and see numerous comments with advice all over the map from good to clueless and I feel like one more comment will just get lost among all the others.  So I now mostly ignore the SS FB forum and come here for more focused discussions.  

Facebook groups suffer from a lack of moderation. They will post all sorts of off-topic things when there is no moderation. I was a member of a scroll saw puzzle group that I left because 2/3 of the posts were off-topic. There are a few groups that have excellent moderation. I have never seen a scroll group on Facebook that was moderated. I thought I had found one some time ago that required me to submit a link to some of my work to get access. I got in, but that was all the moderation they had.

[kmmcrafts]

I'm on a lot of those FB groups.. but I rarely ever even look at the topics and mostly because of things already mentioned.. also it is hard to follow along.. Then there is several groups and several people posting the same thing on all of those groups so if I do follow the groups I end up seeing several of the same postings several times in the same day which makes it even harder to follow along... 

[BadBob]

The few Facebook groups I am in are either moderated, or have such low volume that it doesn't matter much.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I think Kevin said the magic words there. HARD TO FOLLOW ALONG FB is a one time make a statement and flee. There is no follow up and to watch what others are saying you have so much clicking on to do it is nothing like a true forum like this that has dedicated subforums and things are not all rolled into one big topic. I try to stay out of conversations unless I have something I can add or when no one is answer the OP question.  

[Fish]

So many of you folks have helped me with many things over the years.  I’m very grateful for all of it.  Everyone just tries to help, being able to do that is a lot of fun.