New saw problem

[wagner1958]

I just purchased a new RBI bm26 saw. I have a festool vac that I have had attached to my 1992 year RBI which has been working fine. When I attached the festool to my new saw the vac will shut off when I run it up to about 7 or 8 on the speed control and then will turn back on when I bump it up to full speed. The lower speed ranges seem to work fine also. The saw plugged into the festool continues to run it’s just the vac that shuts off. I also plugged my old saw back into the vac and tried all different speed ranges and it seems to work fine. I am at a loss what I need to try next 

[TAIrving]

@wagner1958 Contact the manufacturer.  It sounds like an unintended design feature that varies the output signal to the vacuum cleaner as you vary the scroll saw speed.  I rather suspect that they will want to know about this and will provide a fix for it.  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

The Festool vac is sensitive to current changes and when you adjust the speed you are changing current ratings. I suggest if you want to do this then do not turn speeds while the vac is running. Try turning the speed to 7 or 8 before you start vac and see if it runs. It should. Or you can try going very slow with the speed changes and let the vac catch up electronically. This is a safety built into the vac. Something like a GFCI. 

[kmmcrafts]

I think @Rolf mentioned something similar with his Festool and plugging his Hawk into it.. The Hawk didn't have enough power draw to turn on the vac. 

I think he ended up plugging the vac into his footswitch for the scroll saw so it comes on that way.. I may be wrong but I thought it was Rolf that mentioned this. 

I have my vac hooked up to the foot switch. I used a three way plug to plug the saw, vac, and hour meter to plug into the footswitch so when I hit the foot paddle it turns on the saw, vac and keeps track of saw run time.

Edited February 19 by kmmcrafts

[wagner1958]

I called festool this morning and they said the festool turns on when it receives 1 amp draw but had no idea why it was doing this. I then called Bushton and was told nothing wrong with the saw , they basically consider the vac system a modifaction and do not support that. i personally see more and more people using a vac system so i would think they would be interested , but i guess not. i started the saw this morning found the sweet spot where the vac system shuts off , backed it off till vac came on then turned it backup to the sweet spot. i then put the saw under a constant load and the vac never shutoff. i have tried putting it on the 7 to 8 setting and starting the saw, the vac  will run about 5 seconds then shut off . if you then shut switch off on saw and turn back on the vac will not start until you move variable speed higher or lower. thank you so much everone for the information and ideas.

[Sycamore67]

I would put an amp meter on the line going to the saw and see what it reads when you turn it on or off.  You could also add a light to the circuit to increase amp draw.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, wagner1958 said:

I called festool this morning and they said the festool turns on when it receives 1 amp draw but had no idea why it was doing this. I then called Bushton and was told nothing wrong with the saw , they basically consider the vac system a modifaction and do not support that. i personally see more and more people using a vac system so i would think they would be interested , but i guess not. i started the saw this morning found the sweet spot where the vac system shuts off , backed it off till vac came on then turned it backup to the sweet spot. i then put the saw under a constant load and the vac never shutoff. i have tried putting it on the 7 to 8 setting and starting the saw, the vac  will run about 5 seconds then shut off . if you then shut switch off on saw and turn back on the vac will not start until you move variable speed higher or lower. thank you so much everone for the information and ideas.

What also maybe happening is a conflict with the DC of the saw. Both tools are working on speed controllers. The vac has built in speed controller which maybe effecting the startup but it all has to do with current draw. Maybe the guy from Festool did not realize the saw is DC. Most times those vacs are used with portable tools and stationary tools that are AC. Maybe play with the vac speed controller and you can sync it up to tool. 

Edited February 19 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[wagner1958]

I did put the light that I have on the saw in the circuit and it didn’t completely solve the problem but I think it did help. I had not thought about both the scroll saw and the vac both being variable speed, thanks I will see if I can experiment with different speeds on the vac and come up with a sweet spot 

[Sycamore67]

Depending the lamp, the current draw could be quite low with LED or fluorescent lights.

I have a Hegner with variable speed and hooked to my Festool extractor with no problems.

[Ctutor]

try plugging the saw and the vac Separately into the foot switch.  that way both get ajolt but arnt really using yhe same switchThat might do it

[wagner1958]

39 minutes ago, Ctutor said:

try plugging the saw and the vac Separately into the foot switch.  that way both get ajolt but arnt really using yhe same switchThat might do it

Unfortunately I never have had a foot switch,

 

[wagner1958]

43 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

Depending the lamp, the current draw could be quite low with LED or fluorescent lights.

I have a Hegner with variable speed and hooked to my Festool extractor with no problems.

Yep it’s led , so probably not much, the odd thing is I have a very old 226 and it works fine with the festool. 

[Ctutor]

you can get a foot switch for about 10 bucks and a threeway plug for less,than 4. worth a try.  That way you leave the saw switched on and plugged im so when you drpress the foot switch juice goes to whatever is plugged in to it but through separate lines.

[Rolf]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:41 PM, kmmcrafts said:

I think @Rolf mentioned something similar with his Festool and plugging his Hawk into it.. The Hawk didn't have enough power draw to turn on the vac. 

I think he ended up plugging the vac into his footswitch for the scroll saw so it comes on that way.. I may be wrong but I thought it was Rolf that mentioned this. 

I have my vac hooked up to the foot switch. I used a three way plug to plug the saw, vac, and hour meter to plug into the footswitch so when I hit the foot paddle it turns on the saw, vac and keeps track of saw run time.

Yes that was me. Just for curiosity I will put an ammeter on both to see if there is a significant difference.  I am more inclined to think that it is line noise created my the speed controllers. Unfortunately my O scope is not working so can't look at that.

Edited February 23 by Rolf

[Jim McDonald]

11 hours ago, Rolf said:

Yes that was me. Just for curiosity I will put an ammeter on both to see if there is a significant difference.  I more inclined to think that it is line noise created my the speed controllers. Unfortunately my O scope is not working so can't look at that.

Rolf, just an idea--put an AM radio near the machine tuned to a static part of the band (if such exists in your area) and listen for changes in the static. Not nearly as good as seeing the noise, but you might get lucky that way.

[Sycamore67]

So, this thread got me to wondering and I got out my tools to measure amps. 

The Hegner is rated at 2.53 Amps and I measured 0.90 amps at both high and low speeds.

The Festool CT26 measured 4.8 amps high speed and 1.9 amps low speed.

I have a circular fluorescent magnifier which measured 0.2 amps.

I was unable to find anything about what current is required to turn the dust extractor on.   Even with the low current draw of my Hegner, I have not encountered a problem.

[wagner1958]

12 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

So, this thread got me to wondering and I got out my tools to measure amps. 

The Hegner is rated at 2.53 Amps and I measured 0.90 amps at both high and low speeds.

The Festool CT26 measured 4.8 amps high speed and 1.9 amps low speed.

I have a circular fluorescent magnifier which measured 0.2 amps.

I was unable to find anything about what current is required to turn the dust extractor on.   Even with the low current draw of my Hegner, I have not encountered a problem.

When i called Festool he told me 1 amp was required to turn on the extractor.  thanks for checking , that is very interesting

[Rolf]

I measured my Hawk yesterday. It was less than one amp.  I used a clip on meter with a line splitter.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IRLJTGA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, Rolf said:

I measured my Hawk yesterday. It was less than one amp.  I used a clip on meter with a line splitter.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IRLJTGA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Rolf, an aside question, was that meter able to read below an amp?? I am surprised. Those inexpensive meters are really not that accurate. 

[Sycamore67]

My meter will measure below an amp but the line splitter also has a 10x area.

[Rolf]

22 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Rolf, an aside question, was that meter able to read below an amp?? I am surprised. Those inexpensive meters are really not that accurate. 

I have the line splitter that Sycamore67 posted. A true test would be to have an in line ammeter.  I don't have those resources since I retired.  

[Sycamore67]

I do not understand what is meant by "true test".   Do you think my results are not accurate?  I did some reading and clamp meters have an accuracy of plus or minus a couple per cent.  For the application of looking at the current draw for a scroll saw, the clamp meter delivers acceptable accuracy.  The clamp meter seems to be the most widely used method.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

54 minutes ago, Sycamore67 said:

I do not understand what is meant by "true test".   Do you think my results are not accurate?  I did some reading and clamp meters have an accuracy of plus or minus a couple per cent.  For the application of looking at the current draw for a scroll saw, the clamp meter delivers acceptable accuracy.  The clamp meter seems to be the most widely used method.

It is because it is the easiest. To use an inline amp meter means alot more work. The Fluke meters are the gold standard along with Simpson meters. These inexpensive meters are quick and easy for homeowners to use. Measuring tools such as scrollsaws that are below an amp really are non concern factors in a scheme of wiring. It is like trying to measure current draw from an LED light. You would actually get a more accurate reading with clamping around the hot wire at the source as opposed to adding the extra device. Just an opinion. 

[Sycamore67]

So, you are suggesting that my reading are not correct??

I am hoping then that you can help out by measuring it correctly.  I think I will be interested in more accurate results.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

2 hours ago, Sycamore67 said:

So, you are suggesting that my reading are not correct??

I am hoping then that you can help out by measuring it correctly.  I think I will be interested in more accurate results.

If you are asking me, that is fine what you did.