I need some help with my Excalibur!!!

[Rolf]

Have you cut a different softer wood with the same thickness to see if it behaves the same.?

Another thought cut the same wood in the opposite direction from the piece pictured above.

Edited March 4 by Rolf

[rafairchild2]

Just now, Rolf said:

Have you cut a different softer wood with the same thickness to see if it behaves the same.?

Yes, I have tried hard and softer woods. 1200 >> 400 janka. 3/4" thick.  The 1/2 was not as bad, but still it was harder to control.

It just feels like the blade is unresponsive.  I will be cutting a circle clockwise, with the waste wood to the right and the blade just keeps heading off to the right, then it will 'snap' back into place, and of course over compensate.

The Pegas modified #10 seems to not do this as bad as I assume thickness of the blade.  But the FD UR #7, 5, and 3 are unresponsive now.

I think what I might try since I have a rebuild kit coming is to crank the lower chuck REALLY tight and see if that stops it.  I am trying to narrow things down to the bottom chuck, and/or the st/thumb screws as being the issue.

I am not hearing and rattles, bangs, pops, or crackles from the saw.  Speeds seem to be normal, so the rocker arms are not too loose, nor too tight.

 

[BadBob]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:50 PM, kmmcrafts said:

Another thing is the actual wood itself. I've also had a piece of cherry wood that gave me fits

I was going to bring that up.  Ipe is very hard to saw even with a bandsaw.

[BadBob]

On 3/3/2024 at 8:42 AM, kmmcrafts said:

I have always found that on my Excalibur that I get slack in my blade if I don't tighten it twice.. What I do is clamp the blade tension it then release tension undo the thumb screw and then re-clamp the blade and apply the tension. I find that first time I tension sort of "pulls down on the upper arm" into its true resting place.

I do this as well. However, I think that what is happening is that in the first clamping the blade isn't straight in the clamps and when I flip the tension lever it straightens the blade, and when I remove the tension there is a little slack. I have experimented with this and found that if I was extremly careful to get the blade exactly right there was liitle or no slack.

[rafairchild2]

Here's a speed video of my excal.  I go from all the way slow to full speed and a few in between.  There is a spot in the middle where I get a little noise.  Do you hear anything odd?

I tried cranking the Chuck's thumb screws to see if it would cut right.  Still no joy, I try cutting an oak circle and it wanders way off to the right.
 

 

Edited March 4 by rafairchild2

[jamieline]

Did you remove the setscrew side on the clamp? Even though you crank down one side the other can be slipping. Remove setscrew and try some sandpaper to rough it up. When it gets to smooth it will loose its holding on the blade.

Did you tighten the blade and run the machine. Then release tension after to see if it has excessive play.

[BadBob]

I don't hear anything out of the ordinary.

Have you checked the motor bolts? If these get loose and the motor shifts position, it can cause problems.

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, rafairchild2 said:

Here's a speed video of my excal.  I go from all the way slow to full speed and a few in between.  There is a spot in the middle where I get a little noise.  Do you hear anything odd?

I tried cranking the Chuck's thumb screws to see if it would cut right.  Still no joy, I try cutting an oak circle and it wanders way off to the right.
 

 

How about a video of the lower clamp? From the top, it all looks ok. I don't know if it's the angle of the camera but it looks to me as though the upper blade chucks seem to be cockeyed. Like they are canting to the right. It might just be camera angle. And I did hear a noise that should not be there. It sounds like something is hitting something. 

Someone suggested putting the original blade clamps on the machine to see if that changed anything. Did you ever try that? Also, maybe try uninstalling the Pegas clamps and re-installing them giving a good look at the mounting hardware while you are doing it. Maybe something is worn and you just can't see it. 

When all else fails, you might have to dig deeper into your machine to see if something has come loose internally. When I got my first saw, a used Dewalt 788, it worked great but when I took it all apart to do a good service on it, I found a broken bolt that didn't find it's way out. Actually, someone prior to me had replaced a screw with a non-Dewalt screw and it was in backwards and the nut had come off but the screw was sort of trapped and couldn't fall out. Just something weird and that may be your trouble too. Remember, the Chinese have no idea what "quality control" means. Not in their lexicon.

 

 

Edited March 5 by OCtoolguy

[rafairchild2]

22 minutes ago, OCtoolguy said:

How about a video of the lower clamp? From the top, it all looks ok. I don't know if it's the angle of the camera but it looks to me as though the upper blade chucks seem to be cockeyed. Like they are canting to the right. It might just be camera angle.

 

I will rerecord the upper shortly.  Meanwhile here is the lower and I start at 100%, I move the camera angle left and right to give you the full view.

 

Edited March 5 by rafairchild2

[OCtoolguy]

That noise seems to happen when you make any drastic change in speed. Have you tried adjusting the motor at all? I know when I adjusted mine to get rid of the aggressiveness, I took it too far once and it sort of "rattled" like yours is doing. Maybe try re-adjusting the motor and see if anything changes.

[rafairchild2]

Here's the upper again.  I did a full sweep around, and tried at the end to have everything line up on the camera's crosshairs so I have 90 degrees.

 

 

[rafairchild2]

Just now, OCtoolguy said:

That noise seems to happen when you make any drastic change in speed. Have you tried adjusting the motor at all? I know when I adjusted mine to get rid of the aggressiveness, I took it too far once and it sort of "rattled" like yours is doing. Maybe try re-adjusting the motor and see if anything changes.

Yes, I have played with the motor and had it at the right spot.  Again remember whatever happened, happened all of a sudden after cutting 3 pieces for the day.

[kmmcrafts]

Only thing I really noticed was your blade isn't centered in the table cutout.. But that shouldn't cause any issues that you're having. It does look like it rubs the right side of the table every now and then. May want to loosen the 4 allen heads on the table top and center it better then tighten it back down. 

There was a couple noises that I heard just as you sped it up or slow it down. I'm not sure what that was I heard. Could it be the blade flexing and hitting the table edge of that hole.. seems like it's far enough away from the edge it shouldn't be hitting it until it's super loose, but doesn't look that loose in the video. LOL. 

 

[rafairchild2]

New clues!!!

So as I was walking out to head to work at 0400, I sat down at my scroll saw and UN-tensioned the blade since I left it on from last nights high and low speed run for the above video posts.

Man, that blade went sloppy!!!  usually, when I flip the lever, it will be somewhat tight at the point I had pulled up on the blade prior to tension. If it did not slip in the chuck (it seemed tight in it), then my rockers are out of alignment and that distance changes while in operation.

So this tells me that either the blade slipped out of the chuck due to worn set screw, or the bottom rocker arm holding the chuck (or chuck itself) is not running parallel to the top.

I am leaning to the arm, as this problem started quickly.  Like I said earlier, I cut 3 pieces no problem, then boom... I could not keep on my line ever since.

So assuming it could be an arm slipped or something broke, where could I look?

I will take a photo when I get back from work later today.

One other thing.  When I would pull up on the blade after the first tension, I noticed that it does not come up as high in the chuck as it used to.  This tells me there is more distance between the upper and lower chuck.  About 3 mm difference.

Bent, broke, slipped???

[jamieline]

I may have missed it but do you clean your blades before using them? 

I have found that there might be a little oil on them that could cause the slipping. When this started did you just change blades?

I would remove the set screws and clean them and rough up a bit just to give it a try. With the blade going sloppy sounds like slippage. Just what I have found.

[kmmcrafts]

Well I believe the lower arm tube is welded and part of the whole saw base etc.. I may be wrong and possibly it's bolted but I'm pretty sure its welded. IF welded then you've got a major issue and unless you have a welder you might be looking to get a new saw.. 

I would grab the lower arm tube and try to see if it has any movement / slop.. I'd be more inclined to think the issue is the upper arm and the threads in the rod and thread block worn.. but you don't seem to have issue with the knob at the back adjusting itself like the most common telltale sign of those threads being bad.

Maybe also check out the aluminum block that inserts into the tube where the rocker arms connect to make sure the screws are all tight etc..  

Since you think it's the lower arm giving issues.. maybe time to take it all apart. I personally have had those bearings go bad more so than the ones inside the saw. I believe because all the sawdust falls down onto the top of all those bearings in the rocker arms etc. and absorbs all the moisture in the grease.. Maybe you got a bad bearing and sleeve in the rocker arms. 

[rafairchild2]

1 hour ago, jamieline said:

I may have missed it but do you clean your blades before using them? 

I have found that there might be a little oil on them that could cause the slipping. When this started did you just change blades?

I would remove the set screws and clean them and rough up a bit just to give it a try. With the blade going sloppy sounds like slippage. Just what I have found.

Yes, I scuff the the sides of the blades top and bottom.  Again, everything was fine.  i was 3 toys into my production, then all of a sudden, I cannot hold lines.

[rafairchild2]

9 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

.. Maybe you got a bad bearing and sleeve in the rocker arms. 

Do you happen to know where to get replacement bearings that fit?  Or would purchasing the whole rocker arms from Seyco be a better way to go? I hope it's not the drive link or the rocker arms (those would be replaced as a pair)

I just pulled the trigger on a 30" Pegas from Bearwoods.  I think what is happening to my Excal is more catastrophic and the cost of fixing a $360 saw, and the time to do it, might not be in my best interest.  Not sure how long I would be down and I have a lot of toys and other items that need to be produced.  I will try and continue to troubleshoot, and if I can fix it, then it will become my backup rig.

[kmmcrafts]

5 minutes ago, rafairchild2 said:

Do you happen to know where to get replacement bearings that fit?  Or would purchasing the whole rocker arms from Seyco be a better way to go? I hope it's not the drive link or the rocker arms (those would be replaced as a pair)

I just pulled the trigger on a 30" Pegas from Bearwoods.  I think what is happening to my Excal is more catastrophic and the cost of fixing a $360 saw, and the time to do it, might not be in my best interest.  Not sure how long I would be down and I have a lot of toys and other items that need to be produced.  I will try and continue to troubleshoot, and if I can fix it, then it will become my backup rig.

Well, I would take it apart and inspect the bearings and sleeves to see what you can find. As for the bearings and sleeve parts.. I believe the rocker arm parts are all the same on these so you might price out bearings and sleeves for each brand of machine including DeWalt and see who has the best price. The easier way though is to buy the assembly from probably Seyco. Do note though.. the aluminum block that these parts mount inside the tube are different on the China made saw. They used different size square tubing to make the arm tubes. So if you buy the whole assembly with the aluminum block you'll have to remove the assemblies from the block and mount them to your existing blocks. 

Your saw isn't that old and the table doesn't look like the paint is all worn off. I'm more inclined to think your set / thumb screw or your chucks themselves are the culprit. But I'm not there to visually see what is happening and video is hard to go off of sometimes. I didn't think the saw noise was horrible in the video to be something major but then audio on video is deceiving too sometimes. Maybe pull the three allen screws off the plate at the back of the saw and take a peek at the rear pivot bearings. The main bigger one is also a common wear point. I've seen many of these with low hours that had no grease and broke the pivot arm.. 

Regardless, congrats on the new Pegas.. I don't think you'll regret that decision. When business gets better for me I think I'm going to get one of those too.. Meanwhile I'll keep plugging away on this China made Excalibur that I rebuilt with all new Seyco parts.. and my 2 Hawks and Hegner.    

[rafairchild2]

9 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

I'm more inclined to think your set / thumb screw or your chucks themselves are the culprit.

Considering that this is a year old saw and I keep it clean.  I use my air hose to blow off any dust.  I also have a top vac that takes most of the dust away. It would seem odd for this type of failure, but it is chinese quality. I am trying to not by chinese on expensive items.  I thought it was a Taiwan model.

I could not imagine it is the Pegas chuck, as they are only a year old too, and I do not over tighten things, I do not slam things.  Hopefully your hunch is correct on the set/thumb screw.  I ordered a set of each from Seyco, so I will drop those in as soon as they arrive.  But for them to let loose so quick seems odd.  3rd piece fine... 4th piece+ wacko. I would think that a set/thumb screw failure would be a slow process of wearing.

Interesting, that Seyco support never replied back to me, this was one reason I did not consider buying their 24 inch.  I like the big table on the saw, and that would have been a selling point for me. But to not reply, seemed odd.

I found the original chucks that came with the Excal yesterday.  If the set/thumb attempt on it's own does not work, then I will switch to the Excal chucks.  They have almost zero hours on them.  So that'll show if it is a chuck failure or not.

Of course I am having buyers remorse as soon as I push the purchase button on the Pegas 30".  But I have been working OT hours, so I had the money already.

 

[rafairchild2]

I'll add this on my Pegas 30" purchase.  They want $130+ shipping for their table.  I recently got a US General service cart for my 1x20 belt/ 5' disc sander and my portable table saw.  It's a roller with a drawer and shelf.  I got it for $99.  When Harbor Freight has that offer again, I will buy one for the Pegas.  I already measured.  Change the length of a couple cabinet screws and I am good on the fit and height, now I am more flexible on my shop since I am in my garage. 

[kmmcrafts]

38 minutes ago, rafairchild2 said:

Considering that this is a year old saw and I keep it clean.  I use my air hose to blow off any dust.  I also have a top vac that takes most of the dust away. It would seem odd for this type of failure, but it is chinese quality. I am trying to not by chinese on expensive items.  I thought it was a Taiwan model.

I could not imagine it is the Pegas chuck, as they are only a year old too, and I do not over tighten things, I do not slam things.  Hopefully your hunch is correct on the set/thumb screw.  I ordered a set of each from Seyco, so I will drop those in as soon as they arrive.  But for them to let loose so quick seems odd.  3rd piece fine... 4th piece+ wacko. I would think that a set/thumb screw failure would be a slow process of wearing.

Interesting, that Seyco support never replied back to me, this was one reason I did not consider buying their 24 inch.  I like the big table on the saw, and that would have been a selling point for me. But to not reply, seemed odd.

I found the original chucks that came with the Excal yesterday.  If the set/thumb attempt on it's own does not work, then I will switch to the Excal chucks.  They have almost zero hours on them.  So that'll show if it is a chuck failure or not.

Of course I am having buyers remorse as soon as I push the purchase button on the Pegas 30".  But I have been working OT hours, so I had the money already.

 

Yeah, I have had issues a couple times about getting a response back from Seyco.. I believe Ray has partially retired or is going to be soon. His son ( I think I read ) Mike is going to be taking over.. I sure don't get replies back like I did several years ago. Took 3 months to get a reply back about a part for my Seyco scroll saw dust extractor.. they did say that they switch to a new computer website or something and my email got lost in the old system. He apologized but never offered any kind of discount on the parts I needed and just didn't sit right with me.. Plus I had already replaced the whole vacuum anyway because I wasn't getting anywhere with Seyco. 

As for the Pegas chucks.. they are great chucks however that's not to say that I haven't seen several topics in the past where people were having issues with them holding tension.. don't know if it was user error or a failure in the chucks.. but I've seen it from several folks over the last few years. 

You might try taking the set / thumb screws from the original EX chucks and try them in the Pegas ones.. or I suppose you could wait until the new ones arrive too. Also consider swapping the original back to the saw to see if it still happens.. could rule out the chucks or a issue with the saw itself.  

[rafairchild2]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

You might try taking the set / thumb screws from the original EX chucks and try them in the Pegas ones.. or I suppose you could wait until the new ones arrive too. Also consider swapping the original back to the saw to see if it still happens.. could rule out the chucks or a issue with the saw itself.  

Do those set/thumb screws from the Ex fit the pegas?  For some reason I thought they were a different diameter/thread/pitch.

[rafairchild2]

So... Not the chuck, not the set screws...

I tensioned my Pegas as normal and ran at high speed for 10 seconds or so.  De-tensioned and the blade flopped with a boat load of play. Okay now what?

Dug out the old Excal chucks, that barely have a week of use on them, and pu them on.. let me say the difference between the two.. oh my!  Excal are real POS's.

Ran the same test, same result.  See video.

Sooo... this means something more structural, catastrophic... Mother...@#$%^&*(!!!!, son of a &^%$#%^!!!

Here's what I discovered... First video was the Pegas, then I swapped to the old Excal in the 2nd video.

 

Edited March 5 by rafairchild2

[Scrappile]

Wait a minute, did I miss something.  You pulled the tension lever forward and the blade flopped,  Of course, you released the tension.  In both videos The flop is with the tension lever released.  Am I correct or an I seeing it wrong?  Put the blade in with that white tension lever forward, then when the blade is clamped push the tension lever back.  That is how it works.

 

Edited March 5 by Scrappile