Question for cold climate scrollers

[Hawk]

I'm in central Michigan and currently working out of my basement which has a ceiling height of 5'10" and I'm  6'4". So I completing getting a shed outside for my scroll shed. (tired of wacking my head when I'm in the basement lol). I'm not worried about the summer months, but during the cold months, do you keep the heat going all winter say around 55 when you're not there of turn the heat off?  And if you turn the heat off do you take the glues and such inside when you're done for the day?

[kmmcrafts]

Before I was making enough money to heat the shop I just used a small space radiant type heater only when I was scrolling. Then I got a wood pellet stove and basically keep it running and the shop stays around 50.. I just run it on low but when working I'll crank it up during the day to around 60 - 65.. My shop is a little more than a small shed though as it's 24 x 32 downstairs and the gable type roof upstairs is all open and only insulation currently is in the roof upstairs part I have 4" R-32 foam sheet stuff that I got a great deal on.. LOL

As for glues.. I do keep those inside and always have for the most part.. paints etc are fine out there but I ruined a new bottle of glue years ago and just habit to keep in the house. Photos of the shop when it was being built. Have 4 windows upstairs and 3 downstairs. Upstairs is mostly my storage of lumber, inventory, and the laser machines are up there.. downstairs I mostly try to keep one bay empty in case I need to pull a car inside to work on it etc.. Old 24 x 24 shop is used just for storage now with several hundred live edge slabs.. more lumber and the mowers and tractors etc. 

[rjweb]

Kevin, that's a nice shop, RJ

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, Hawk said:

I'm in central Michigan and currently working out of my basement which has a ceiling height of 5'10" and I'm  6'4". So I completing getting a shed outside for my scroll shed. (tired of wacking my head when I'm in the basement lol). I'm not worried about the summer months, but during the cold months, do you keep the heat going all winter say around 55 when you're not there of turn the heat off?  And if you turn the heat off do you take the glues and such inside when you're done for the day?

I can only hope I never have to know the answer to your question.

 

[Millwab]

Chris, I’m in a basement shop so I don’t have to worry about cold or warm outside. I don’t know for sure, but I would think that condensation on tools would be a problem constantly going from freezing to comfortable warm and back to freezing. Just my thoughts.

[Hawk]

3 minutes ago, Millwab said:

Chris, I’m in a basement shop so I don’t have to worry about cold or warm outside. I don’t know for sure, but I would think that condensation on tools would be a problem constantly going from freezing to comfortable warm and back to freezing. Just my thoughts.

I'm not really big on moving outside, took a while getting the basement to where I almost got it where I want it scrolling wise. Moving outside I'd be starting all over again with set up and such, not to mention the temp swings. But I keep knocking my head into the floor joists and HVAC duct work. My wife says I should get a hard hat (lol).  Which is what lead me to ask here on dealing with cold. But I agree with you , I'm concerned on what the temp swings would do to the saw.

[Millwab]

1 minute ago, Hawk said:

But I keep knocking my head into the floor joists and HVAC duct work.

Maybe a rolling stool would keep your head from hurting

[Scrappile]

Kevin can afford a shop like that, but I could not afford the scraps cut out for the windows.  He makes a bunch each year off of scrolling-- or he married into a bunch of money!.  Maybe he makes it off his good looks.  Either or whichever I do not have.  But good on him!

[Randyw81]

I am in southern Pennsylvania and worked in an enclosed unheated pavilion for many years.  I used a small propane heater when I was working in it. I never had a problem with rust or condensation on any of my tools, but I always stored my glues inside the house to keep them from freezing. 

[Hawk]

Thanks to all for your input. My thoughts on the glue and such are confirmed, Just exploring options as would prefer to be in daylight instead of a cave.

[kmmcrafts]

Only time I ever had issues with condensation was the spring thaw.. Not much issues during the winter but when the warmer temps started melting in the spring the shop floor would be damp.. keep a good coat of paste wax on all my equipment did wonders from keeping the table tops from rust. No issues these days since I put in the heater and keep shop warm through the winter..

 

[OCtoolguy]

1 hour ago, Hawk said:

I'm not really big on moving outside, took a while getting the basement to where I almost got it where I want it scrolling wise. Moving outside I'd be starting all over again with set up and such, not to mention the temp swings. But I keep knocking my head into the floor joists and HVAC duct work. My wife says I should get a hard hat (lol).  Which is what lead me to ask here on dealing with cold. But I agree with you , I'm concerned on what the temp swings would do to the saw.

You have 2 choices, raise the ceiling or lower the floor. Problem solved.

[JessL]

I have a little wood shed that I scroll in.  In the winter months I use a propane buddy heater to warm up the place. It is small so doesn't take too long to heat.  I just go and turn it on then come back and have my coffee and what not for about an hour or so, really depends on how cold it is outside.  When we hit negative 30-40 this last winter, I did not even bother to scroll. Like others, I bring all my glues inside.  Our big shop is not heated either.  We use a wood stove there and works fine for us. 

[Denny Knappen]

1 hour ago, JessL said:

I have a little wood shed that I scroll in.  In the winter months I use a propane buddy heater to warm up the place. It is small so doesn't take too long to heat.  I just go and turn it on then come back and have my coffee and what not for about an hour or so, really depends on how cold it is outside.  When we hit negative 30-40 this last winter, I did not even bother to scroll. Like others, I bring all my glues inside.  Our big shop is not heated either.  We use a wood stove there and works fine for us. 

Wow, Jess, I sure like your avatar.

[ChelCass]

I am also in Central Michigan.  I have an 8x16 wood She Shed I bought from the Amish.  Hubby installed insulation in the walls and ceiling. Windows have storm windows he built, floor has laminate flooring.  I have a ventless propane heater I run all winter.  I turn it down to just keeping shed warm when I am not there.  Usually around 50 degrees.  I go thru a 40lb tank of propane every two and half weeks. Cost 20.00 to refill tank.  I leave my stain, glue and all other freezables in my shed. By leaving the heat on my wood does not warp and my saws, drills and sanders stay rustfree.  

[rustynail]

One  old trick I did when I had a shop that I did not heat (as I live in Michigan as well) is I had an old refrigerator that did not work and I rigged the switch to keep the light on and I used an incandescent light bulb and it keep the glue and paint warm ware as not to freeze them and they could be used any time . I only cost pennies to leave the light on and old refrigerators can be gotten for free, and you can get a smaller one so it doesn't take up a lot of space and can be used for shelving for tools and other things that you would store in the shed as well heated or not. Or even a cooler with a light in it.

 

Edited May 17 by rustynail

[Norm Fengstad]

Nice shop kevin, I use our well insulated garage with Natural Gas heater. and the truck sits in the car port. Our winters can be long, cold and blustery so I keep heat on all the time set at 15 degrees celcius. about 50 degrees Farenhieght.  Most enjoyable work space

[NC Scroller]

I am a transplant from upstate NY to NC. Even in NC we have numerous nights in the 20's.  My two cents is unless you insulate your shop you are wasting your time and money. Also, you want to maintain a steady temperature when not in use.  Raising the temp by 5-10 degrees is doable but not more. Remember metal, especially cast iron takes a lot longer to come up to room temperature. 

[Matthew Simmons]

I also built a new shop -- mine in downstate NY. Well insulated, has a heat pump, but also has an exposed concrete floor (which I'm assuming acts like a heat vacuum). I've had various expensive disagreements with the heat pump over keeping the shop at a minimum temperature. I want 40-45, Fujitsu claims to have a minimum temp setting of 50, but if I don't perform the ritual sacrifices just right I end up with 60.

In practice it's insulated well enough (spray foam) that it won't go below freezing except on really really cold days. That happens maybe once or twice a year. For that week or two I leave the heat pump at 60, but leave it off the rest of the year. I go to all that effort for basically the reason you gave -- I don't want to have to haul finishes and glues back and forth.

[OCtoolguy]

9 hours ago, Matthew Simmons said:

I also built a new shop -- mine in downstate NY. Well insulated, has a heat pump, but also has an exposed concrete floor (which I'm assuming acts like a heat vacuum). I've had various expensive disagreements with the heat pump over keeping the shop at a minimum temperature. I want 40-45, Fujitsu claims to have a minimum temp setting of 50, but if I don't perform the ritual sacrifices just right I end up with 60.

In practice it's insulated well enough (spray foam) that it won't go below freezing except on really really cold days. That happens maybe once or twice a year. For that week or two I leave the heat pump at 60, but leave it off the rest of the year. I go to all that effort for basically the reason you gave -- I don't want to have to haul finishes and glues back and forth.

Sounds like a nice shop. Too bad you didn't do the heated floor. I would think that would be the best way. From the ground up.

 

[Matthew Simmons]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:40 PM, OCtoolguy said:

Sounds like a nice shop. Too bad you didn't do the heated floor. I would think that would be the best way. From the ground up.

 

'Tis true. I didn't think about it until much later. It would be interesting to see numbers on what's cheaper for my use case -- keeping the entire slab at 45-50ish degrees or running the heat pump a bit harder those weeks when I do need it to make up for loss through the slab. And of course the heated slab would be of zero use the other half of the year where the heat pump's job is to keep the temperature below 80-85.

[RangerJay]

I'm in Thunder Bay, Northwestern Ontario.  I've been lucky enough to have heated garages for my shops since the mid-1990's - heat has always been programmed to go down to 12 degrees C overnnight and come up to 18 degrees C during the day.  In all that time I've never had problems with glue or paint although I never use either first thing after a really cold night.  What I do keep an eye on is the humidity during the non-winter months - if it climbs to 45% then I turn on the dehumidifier.  The other noticeable issue is the concrete floor contributing to cold feet - in addition to simply cranking up the thermostat I have those thick rubber matts in front of my benches, and may also use a low step-stool to keep my feet off the floor when sitting at the scrollsaw bench.  On ridiculously cold days I include a small electric heater to keep warm air moving under the scrollsaw bench.

Jay

 

[barb.j.enders]

12 hours ago, RangerJay said:

The other noticeable issue is the concrete floor contributing to cold feet - in addition to simply cranking up the thermostat I have those thick rubber matts in front of my benches, and may also use a low step-stool to keep my feet off the floor when sitting at the scrollsaw bench. 

My son-in-law has a workbench in his garage.  He built a sub-floor in that area.  Keeps the toes warm.  

 

On 5/17/2024 at 12:41 PM, rustynail said:

One  old trick I did when I had a shop that I did not heat (as I live in Michigan as well) is I had an old refrigerator that did not work and I rigged the switch to keep the light on and I used an incandescent light bulb and it keep the glue and paint warm ware as not to freeze them and they could be used any time . I only cost pennies to leave the light on and old refrigerators can be gotten for free, and you can get a smaller one so it doesn't take up a lot of space and can be used for shelving for tools and other things that you would store in the shed as well heated or not. Or even a cooler with a light in it.

 

My dad, lived in southern Ontario, had a storage room off the carport that he ran an old interior car warmer in.  Kept the room above freezing.  This is where he stored tools, paints/glued and wines.