How were these roofs cut?

[Matthew Simmons]

Here's a screenshot from a Volker Arnold pattern book. Note the scalloping (right word?) on the roof. This pattern book was released in 2018, which I think was before engraving lasers became as accessible as they are today. Any idea how they made the roof pattern without a laser?

I will admit to a bias against laser cutters/engravers. I enjoy the scroll saw cutting process, and get annoyed at the thought that someone will look at the result and think it's like five minutes of lasering and then some assembly/finishing. Basically the part I like becomes trivial, and the part I'm not terribly fond of becomes the focus. I know, I know, it shouldn't matter what other people think, and yet. Perhaps I'm the only one who feels this way?

Matt

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Without being able to see a close up, it is hard to tell. That could be a flat piece of wood and sharpie or other pen type device could be used to do the printing. They do sell wood roof material for models these days also. They have all kinds of products for building doll houses and all look real but on smaller scales.

[Wichman]

Laser. If you look at the example on the other side of the page, it's a better quality photo and you can see the shingles are burnt in, and they are perfect. The other "tell" is the darkened ( burnt ) edges of the pieces.

At the business where I worked for 26 years, we got a laser in about 2000, and the hobby machines came just a couple of years after that.

Wait, What? The US distributor, Kyle Sheffer is Tom Sevy's son in law? I'm out.

[OCtoolguy]

6 hours ago, Wichman said:

Laser. If you look at the example on the other side of the page, it's a better quality photo and you can see the shingles are burnt in, and they are perfect. The other "tell" is the darkened ( burnt ) edges of the pieces.

At the business where I worked for 26 years, we got a laser in about 2000, and the hobby machines came just a couple of years after that.

Wait, What? The US distributor, Kyle Sheffer is Tom Sevy's son in law? I'm out.

Who is Tom Sevy? Not familiar.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I did not know that book was a link you can click on. Yes that is all laser cut . there are companies on FB that sell all kinds of items that are laser cut. They look so cheap.  Just my opinion Ray so do not yell at me. I hate lasers. 

Edited May 21 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

From someone that has a laser and uses it a lot.. I agree it was done on a laser.. I don't hate lasers nor the people that use them as hate is a pretty strong word.. I like lasers as they have a place in the woodwork and many other mediums and crafts. I do dislike the folks that use them and paun the products off as handmade.. Lasers can and do enhance scrolled work as well as many other types of work.. pretty hard to engrave with a scroll saw, LOL.. It's nice to take an existing scrolled product that is already made and be able to personalize it for an "upcharge" for those in the crafts selling scene. 

Many lasered products do look cheap, but that is just opinion and many people out there like the product at the price point they are offered at so people continue to make cheap looking items and try to compete with the cheap imported products you see at the box stores.. Just because it's a laser product doesn't mean it has to be cheap product.. there are people doing high end stuff with lasers, however the majority seem to make cheap crap with them. 

At the end of the day they are just another tool to add to and enhance my scrolled products much like any other tool such as routers and lathes.. 

Most the people that hate or dislike lasers only hate or dislike them because the people that started out using them years ago did paun off the stuff as handmade and they used the patterns and designs that was originally designed for handmade scrolled products.. Most nowadays don't know a darn thing about them and it's really easy to hand down that hate / dislike and give lasers a bad name and review when you've never set your hands on one and used it.. Like word of mouth goes on for years from oldtimers because of something that happened 40 years ago.. 

Edited May 21 by kmmcrafts

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

24 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

From someone that has a laser and uses it a lot.. I agree it was done on a laser.. I don't hate lasers nor the people that use them as hate is a pretty strong word.. I like lasers as they have a place in the woodwork and many other mediums and crafts. I do dislike the folks that use them and paun the products off as handmade.. Lasers can and do enhance scrolled work as well as many other types of work.. pretty hard to engrave with a scroll saw, LOL.. It's nice to take an existing scrolled product that is already made and be able to personalize it for an "upcharge" for those in the crafts selling scene. 

Many lasered products do look cheap, but that is just opinion and many people out there like the product at the price point they are offered at so people continue to make cheap looking items and try to compete with the cheap imported products you see at the box stores.. Just because it's a laser product doesn't mean it has to be cheap product.. there are people doing high end stuff with lasers, however the majority seem to make cheap crap with them. 

At the end of the day they are just another tool to add to and enhance my scrolled products much like any other tool such as routers and lathes.. 

Most the people that hate or dislike lasers only hate or dislike them because the people that started out using them years ago did paun off the stuff as handmade and they used the patterns and designs that was originally designed for handmade scrolled products.. Most nowadays don't know a darn thing about them and it's really easy to hand down that hate / dislike and give lasers a bad name and review when you've never set your hands on one and used it.. Like word of mouth goes on for years from oldtimers because of something that happened 40 years ago.. 

Say what you want Kevin and you are entitled to your opinion as well as I but If you call anything handmade and use a laser for any part of that project you are a fraud and that includes doing lettering or whatever. To me hate is not too strong of a word. I grew up fighting these blasted things when I first started and now they just get worse. I see things like this all the time and now 3D machines are invading the pen blank making world and it is the same thing happening. People call that handmade too and it is a fraud. It just gives us true craftspeople a hard time to compete. I am glad I am too old to be selling any more and let you and others go at it. Yes I hold a grudge. You will never understand because you do not do craft shows. You can not say they are just like a router or a lathe by no means. When you hit a button and a finished product comes out how is that like using a router or a lathe?? You using them to add lettering and things is just one step away from doing entire project. maybe you have to learn more programming skills but you are right there. AI is on your doorstep and you will not even have to be in the shop any more. But still call it hand made but just not your hands made it. Good luck. 

I am not telling you do not use them or any other tool but now I took offense to your reply and just stating my opinion too.  When all us "oldtimers" die off and some other fandangle machine comes along and then you and your laser will be in the same boat and you will be doing the bickering. There are many example of how lazy people have gotten over the years because of innovations. Take the IPhone as an example. Today kids can not do simple math or write a sentence without the help of that phone. 

[rjweb]

Wow, well everyone is intitled to there opoinion, but Kevin I don't feel you are a fraud, you are just enhancing your project, RJ

[OCtoolguy]

11 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I did not know that book was a link you can click on. Yes that is all laser cut . there are companies on FB that sell all kinds of items that are laser cut. They look so cheap.  Just my opinion Ray so do not yell at me. I hate lasers. 

Why would I yell at you JT?

[kmmcrafts]

20 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Say what you want Kevin and you are entitled to your opinion as well as I but If you call anything handmade and use a laser for any part of that project you are a fraud and that includes doing lettering or whatever. To me hate is not too strong of a word. I grew up fighting these blasted things when I first started and now they just get worse. I see things like this all the time and now 3D machines are invading the pen blank making world and it is the same thing happening. People call that handmade too and it is a fraud. It just gives us true craftspeople a hard time to compete. I am glad I am too old to be selling any more and let you and others go at it. Yes I hold a grudge. You will never understand because you do not do craft shows. You can not say they are just like a router or a lathe by no means. When you hit a button and a finished product comes out how is that like using a router or a lathe?? You using them to add lettering and things is just one step away from doing entire project. maybe you have to learn more programming skills but you are right there. AI is on your doorstep and you will not even have to be in the shop any more. But still call it hand made but just not your hands made it. Good luck. 

I am not telling you do not use them or any other tool but now I took offense to your reply and just stating my opinion too.  When all us "oldtimers" die off and some other fandangle machine comes along and then you and your laser will be in the same boat and you will be doing the bickering. There are many example of how lazy people have gotten over the years because of innovations. Take the IPhone as an example. Today kids can not do simple math or write a sentence without the help of that phone. 

This is why I advertise the stuff as laser engrave / cut and hand painted.. nowhere do I say it's handmade so get off the high horse JT. When someone ask for personalization I tell them I can "laser engrave" the names or "CNC router" that so they "know" it's not going to be hand cut.. IF they want 100% handmade I offer that too.. however it's gotta be completely made from scratch from pattern to finished product and 30 days out before I can mail it.. most either go for the quicker cheaper option.. some do not.. doesn't matter to me either way I'm going to make my money doing it or not.. if not then that next person / job is paying my way.. I don't try to scam anyone out of money.. they know what they are getting if they even care.. majority don't seem to really care about how it's made.. they just want that personalized gift that you're not going to find at Walmart..

Furthermore are you selling fraud products then? as I recall you "paid someone" to 3D print you a angel to enhance a pen you turned.. at least I'm doing "all the work myself"!!! Or is it okay for some to use these tools and not others? Just curious.. 

Handmade is an opinionated term anyway.. some of the oldtimers before you was probably mad because you had a electric powered scroll saw and they was trying to compete with a coping saw.. Things evolve and that is a good thing..otherwise we'd still be using outhouses and having to carry water from the local stream.. some people just can't accept change and that is okay.. no reason to be so bitter about it though.. I'd much rather scroll all my items but without the Laser and CNC I'd likely be out of business just like you.. these machines help with personalizations and doing things the scroll saws can't.. 

I find it truly funny how there is such a double standard.. Truly handmade should include you hand draw the design rather than purchasing a computer generated pattern too.. where does one draw that line? It's all "opinions anyway" you have yours and everyone else has theirs.. 

You always seem like you have some sort of beef with me. You and many others stated your opinions.. I stated mine and then get called out.. I never mentioned your name in my post.. just my opinion.. No need to run way again as I'm not on here much anymore anyway as I'm over on the Laser / CNC sights more now because I'm doing more of that stuff now.. you stay here as I'll leave this time.. as I don't belong here with my fraud selling laser and CNC products anyway.... sometimes you just gotta laugh at this stupid double standards that people have.

[OCtoolguy]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

This is why I advertise the stuff as laser engrave / cut and hand painted.. nowhere do I say it's handmade so get off the high horse JT. When someone ask for personalization I tell them I can "laser engrave" the names or "CNC router" that so they "know" it's not going to be hand cut.. IF they want 100% handmade I offer that too.. however it's gotta be completely made from scratch from pattern to finished product and 30 days out before I can mail it.. most either go for the quicker cheaper option.. some do not.. doesn't matter to me either way I'm going to make my money doing it or not.. if not then that next person / job is paying my way.. I don't try to scam anyone out of money.. they know what they are getting if they even care.. majority don't seem to really care about how it's made.. they just want that personalized gift that you're not going to find at Walmart..

Furthermore are you selling fraud products then? as I recall you "paid someone" to 3D print you a angel to enhance a pen you turned.. at least I'm doing "all the work myself"!!! Or is it okay for some to use these tools and not others? Just curious.. 

Handmade is an opinionated term anyway.. some of the oldtimers before you was probably mad because you had a electric powered scroll saw and they was trying to compete with a coping saw.. Things evolve and that is a good thing..otherwise we'd still be using outhouses and having to carry water from the local stream.. some people just can't accept change and that is okay.. no reason to be so bitter about it though.. I'd much rather scroll all my items but without the Laser and CNC I'd likely be out of business just like you.. these machines help with personalizations and doing things the scroll saws can't.. 

I find it truly funny how there is such a double standard.. Truly handmade should include you hand draw the design rather than purchasing a computer generated pattern too.. where does one draw that line? It's all "opinions anyway" you have yours and everyone else has theirs.. 

You always seem like you have some sort of beef with me. You and many others stated your opinions.. I stated mine and then get called out.. I never mentioned your name in my post.. just my opinion.. No need to run way again as I'm not on here much anymore anyway as I'm over on the Laser / CNC sights more now because I'm doing more of that stuff now.. you stay here as I'll leave this time.. as I don't belong here with my fraud selling laser and CNC products anyway.... sometimes you just gotta laugh at this stupid double standards that people have.

Well said Kevin. But please don't leave the SSV. Your input is valuable to most all of us so don't let one person shut you down.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

This is why I advertise the stuff as laser engrave / cut and hand painted.. nowhere do I say it's handmade so get off the high horse JT. When someone ask for personalization I tell them I can "laser engrave" the names or "CNC router" that so they "know" it's not going to be hand cut.. IF they want 100% handmade I offer that too.. however it's gotta be completely made from scratch from pattern to finished product and 30 days out before I can mail it.. most either go for the quicker cheaper option.. some do not.. doesn't matter to me either way I'm going to make my money doing it or not.. if not then that next person / job is paying my way.. I don't try to scam anyone out of money.. they know what they are getting if they even care.. majority don't seem to really care about how it's made.. they just want that personalized gift that you're not going to find at Walmart..

Furthermore are you selling fraud products then? as I recall you "paid someone" to 3D print you a angel to enhance a pen you turned.. at least I'm doing "all the work myself"!!! Or is it okay for some to use these tools and not others? Just curious.. 

Handmade is an opinionated term anyway.. some of the oldtimers before you was probably mad because you had a electric powered scroll saw and they was trying to compete with a coping saw.. Things evolve and that is a good thing..otherwise we'd still be using outhouses and having to carry water from the local stream.. some people just can't accept change and that is okay.. no reason to be so bitter about it though.. I'd much rather scroll all my items but without the Laser and CNC I'd likely be out of business just like you.. these machines help with personalizations and doing things the scroll saws can't.. 

I find it truly funny how there is such a double standard.. Truly handmade should include you hand draw the design rather than purchasing a computer generated pattern too.. where does one draw that line? It's all "opinions anyway" you have yours and everyone else has theirs.. 

You always seem like you have some sort of beef with me. You and many others stated your opinions.. I stated mine and then get called out.. I never mentioned your name in my post.. just my opinion.. No need to run way again as I'm not on here much anymore anyway as I'm over on the Laser / CNC sights more now because I'm doing more of that stuff now.. you stay here as I'll leave this time.. as I don't belong here with my fraud selling laser and CNC products anyway.... sometimes you just gotta laugh at this stupid double standards that people have.

Kevin here is the deal. Go back and look what I said in reply to the OP. All I said they were laser cut and that I think they look cheap and my final word was I hate lasers. I think everyone here knows I hate lasers because they came up before. Then you get on here and no one else mentioned anything about hating lasers and you went into this long diatribe about how you use lasers and because one does not use one knows nothing about it and this was all directed at me. No one else mentioned the hate for lasers. It is old timers who do not want to move into the future and all that stuff. I am not stupid Kevin. I know when I am the target of a reply. Yes I used a 3D image of an angel for displaying certain religious pens I make. They are called props. Not for sale. Run away again. It does not bother me one way or other. I try to add when I can but maybe it is time to move away from this site all together. being I do not do much scrolling any more anyway. Good luck with your lasers and scrollsaw work. 

Ray to answer your question you yelled at me for being negative one time before so I figured you would again. 

[rjweb]

Kevin please stay as Ray said your input is always straight on and I for one appreciate it, RJ

[Rolf]

I will wade in here. I agree with Kevin that the Laser is just another tool. I am a "Tool Junkie" personally love all tools.  My mom bought a digital embroidery machine and got into computers in her late 70's. I had a heck of a time keeping up with her.  Technology has its place.

I do have a small desktop laser engraver. It's primary use is for personalizing certain ornaments and gifts. I used to do the engraving with my Colewood burner, but looked like crap especially on softer grainy woods. Also try engraving 1mm or less text by hand.   Or tell me that the tears of joy are crap when I give a a laser engraved ornament to them that I created from a photo of their deceased dog. 

And for the record I have never been out sold by fully laser made projects even though my work is significantly higher priced. 

[rjweb]

Actually JT you could do wonders with a laser, you say that pen turning is your main hobby, well with a laser they could be personaized, people would really like that, it is just another tool to your use with your turning talents, RJ

[kmmcrafts]

I would never let just one person chase me off.. but you see, the whole scroll sawing community has this box they stand on called the soap box and they puff the chest out and say I made this with their own two hands.. rightfully so as it does take skill and talent to scroll saw as it does with any other form of crafting. I've been there done that with many different forms of scroll sawing been on that soap box myself over the years too, and again rightfully so. 

The issue is I have changed, haven't even touched my scroll saw this year.. yet anyway.  Sales have slowed way up so I've been taking advantage of that extra time playing with the laser and CNC projects.. you'd think after 7 years I'd learn where that button is that is so easy to push as everyone puts it, on these machines that make you not need any talent whatsoever to pump out some chinese trash looking projects. But I guess I'm as bright as a burnt out lightbulb because I can't seem to find that button  and am having to do more hands on and learning than that.. 

The sad thing is I've got a lot of friends and online family here on SSV.. many would like to see the things I'm making or at least they say they would like me to post the some of the laser and cnc stuff. Yet I post some things and the negative nellies come out of the woodwork and talk trash about just pushing that button.. discrediting any skill it took for me to get that project made and the whole subject turns into a handmade versus machine made topic. Why would i keep doing that and feeling I have to defend that it's more than that. Easier to just step out.. some may have noticed I haven't been posting as much. Funny thing is I can show my friends on the laser and cnc sites my scroll saw projects and nobody gets all bent out of shape and says anything about it..

JT, I did do the craft shows in the mid 80's through the early 2000's but it wasn't my things I sold.. it was my fathers stuff I helped him sell so I have seen that movement as did Dad. Dad always said he couldn't compete with them but sold very well despite they were there. He never trash talked the laser / cnc but rather was amazed at the detail and what they could do with them machines. I think if he'd of had the money he'd have bought one and messed with it.. as Rolf said, just another tool and he is a tool junky just as my father was.  

JT, the original poster mentioned a dislike for the laser machines too so it's not just about you all the time.. Again..I never addressed YOU!

Thing is in the "other woodworks" section you're supposed to be able to post "other woodworking projects" nobody trashes lathe work or any other forms of woodwork, but open up a can of worms posting a CNC or laser item.. that's the hatred those of us that do have and use these tools in our shops get.. It's you all that chase us out.. maybe rightfully so too. I don't know. Just seem pretty harsh when 40 years ago people ruined the minds of so many because of the competition they created.. Clearly anyone that says there is no skill or no hands on work when using these machines have no idea what they're talking about. 

Sorry for the rant and changing the subject of the topic at hand.

I'm stepping out on this one.

Photo of my most recent fraud made product. $30 upcharge to engrave and hand paint the text.. Sad that just because i used a machine to help enhance the product for the customer it throws the whole thing out the window as being handmade now 

 

[OCtoolguy]

19 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:
Kevin here is the deal. Go back and look what I said in reply to the OP. All I said they were laser cut and that I think they look cheap and my final word was I hate lasers. I think everyone here knows I hate lasers because they came up before. Then you get on here and no one else mentioned anything about hating lasers and you went into this long diatribe about how you use lasers and because one does not use one knows nothing about it and this was all directed at me. No one else mentioned the hate for lasers. It is old timers who do not want to move into the future and all that stuff. I am not stupid Kevin. I know when I am the target of a reply. Yes I used a 3D image of an angel for displaying certain religious pens I make. They are called props. Not for sale. Run away again. It does not bother me one way or other. I try to add when I can but maybe it is time to move away from this site all together. being I do not do much scrolling anymore anyway. Good luck with your lasers and scrollsaw work. 
Ray to answer your question you yelled at me for being negative one time before so I figured you would again. 

 

No I was misunderstood and I thought I had explained myself. Maybe not. But, I do see a lot of negativity in your posts lately. Especially toward Kevin. Why not just ignore him if he riles you? I hate to see this happening here. We have enough problems in our lives without having them here too. It's time for both of you to stop bickering. 

Edited May 23 by OCtoolguy

[John M]

I have been a member here for a while and don't post much. I do check in to see what people are making and enjoy the comradery. With that being said I do sell at a number of craft shows both scrolled items and laser engraved items. I soley use my laser to engrave items and never cut with it. When people are in my booth I do tell them what is hand made and what is laser engraved. I do mix both mediums and it does cteate unique items. Customers do enjoy both and they all increase sales. The laser is another tool and it does take talent to program them to get a nice looking product. Just my 2 cents and not trying to stir the pot.

Edited May 22 by John M

[rjweb]

Kevin, that cross is beautiful, I enjoy looking at what you post done with a laser, RJ

[Rolf]

My final thoughts on this subject, getting back to the original post about Volger Arnold's  patterns.

 He is a great designer and his ornament pattern have paid for a huge chunk of the tools in my workshop. I started cutting his designs in 2005 on my scroll saw.  Volker did transition to creating and cutting some designs for the laser as they became more available. He started making really scaled down things that he sold in his marketplace in Germany. he sent me this many years ago. That square is about 2". and has a Carousel in it. I had always planned to scale it up a "bit" so that I could make it on my Scrollsaw. 

Bottom line, tools are tools, and technology moves on. I for one love new tools. But my work will still be hand made, cut shaped and carved as long as my hands and mind can do it.

[flarud]

Kevin,  

I've been a member here for around 7 years.  Never had an issue with anyone except one person.  That person is always forcing his opinion on others, his way is the right way, his tools are the best tools, he will never buy anything from Harbor Freight because it is all junk he says.  He doesn't understand that some of us can't afford the top of the line tools.  We have to use what we can.  I have engaged in very very few conversations with him over the years and don't feel that I have missed out on anything because of that.  He has come and gone several times in my short 7 years, I imagine he will continue to do so.  I do admit that he does very nice work, but I don't let people like that in my life.  I thoroughly enjoy spending time here and reading everyone else's post and admiring everyone's talents.  I know I will get a response and I don't blame him, it is his right.. but I won't engage.  Very nice cross by the way!

[rjweb]

Well said, RJ

 

Might be time to close this post !

Edited May 23 by rjweb

[Norm Fengstad]

This subject is much to complicated for me so I am moving on to the next topic as there may be some sanity there

[rjweb]

Talking about lasers, just received Woodcrafts monthly sale book, and they are having a demo on lasers in next month, it seems that woodcraft is realizing that lasers are the way of the future, another tool in the shop, RJ

[Scrappile]

I would make the shingles by shaping a long piece of wood in the shape I want the shingles.  Then cut the stick into thin slices.  Or, just cut them out on thin plywood, stack-cutting, them of course.