Used scroll saw market

[GrampaJim]

I am not looking for another saw, but I do keep and eye on FB marketplace.  Just did a quick survey buy entering "scroll saw" in my area SE Wisconsin.  I found 17 Hawks/RBI, seven Hegners and Only 2 Excaliburs.  Got me thinking that is a lot of Hawks.  Did they really sell that many?  Are people giving up on them?  I don't have a clue how many were sold by each manufacturer, But I would have expected that more Excalibur we sold, then Hegner, and and then Hawk.  Or is this just a mid-west thing.  Thoughts?

[Scrappile]

I live on the West Coast.  I have been watching scroll saw sales on local Craigslist and Facebook Market.  I didn't count but it seems that there are a lot of Hawks from the middle to upper-end saws.   Like from Excalibur type on up.  They outnumber the Hegners several times over, like 8 or even more to 1 or more.  The Excalibur types by 4 to 1, just a guess.   But it is interesting.  I know Hawk, is a top-of-the-line saw.  I want one.  But, to me. it has had its ups and downs.  Improvement over the years.  Whereas Hegners, have had little minor changes, all easy to identify and understand.  For myself, I am cautious about Hawks because for a "top of the line" saw I do not know what to buy.   The Hawks have had a pretty wide range of changes, from the type of clamps, to motors, to tension mechanisms to customer service, and availability.   I know many here have the Hawks and are very happy with them.  So, please help me understand this.

Edited July 2 by Scrappile

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Not a fair comparison because there are a ton of Excallibur look a likes on the market that use that sawing motion as opposed to Hawks. Thus much cheaper versions of that type saw.  Hegners is an acquired taste type of saw and they were always way over priced in my mind. But they too are a very reliable saw.  Hawk of all 3 of those saws had the most turnovers in that changes were done. Some good  and some not so good. Hegner is basically the same saw as it has always been. So is the excalibur. This is my opinion on the subject. 

[Scrappile]

I was not comparing saws, at least not my intent, I was trying to describe what I  see available on the market related I guess to original price range. I Have owned all from entry level craftsman to Hegner including Dewalt, Excalibur, Seyco (Excalibur type).  I "acquired the taste" for a Hegner fairly quickly, I admit there were somethings to get use too.  But it is my one saw I would not part with.  But I like to try saws and Hawk is one high end saw I have not sat at.  I would like to. But I am finding it difficult to find the one that would be acceptable.  Older ones are plentiful but I have read many negatives.  There are newer ones but at their price range I feel hesitant because of the upgrades and mods.  They seem important.  A hegner for sell I can just look at it a picture and see what era it is and what Modifications are important to me.   Not so with Hawk.   I think my comparison is fair,as to what is availble in the used market.  I have been scrolling for many year and I know the history of the Excalibur saws.  I did not compare excaulibur to Hawk I compared the number of used on the market.

[kmmcrafts]

I don't know for sure but I think probably the direction of each company and the target market they was trying to reach is what made this all happen. Hegner seemed to have been the higher priced saw through a lot of the years I think Hawks were quite a lot lower priced from what I read, so I sort of think Hegner marketed as a higher end saw to a richer group of people.. Maybe wrong on that but I know that Hawk made many saws for "other brands" or rebranded to other companies but they was still the same old Hawk, just different color and name. I don't think Hegner did that sort of stuff. I also think Hawk built a very good saw for the price points but still higher end prices than any of the others.. I don't know any higher end names for back then other than Delta made a decent mid range saw.. There where tons of what i would consider entree level saws back then but what did they really have for a mid to high end saw back in the 80's and 90's?

I think Hawk made a lot of design changes looking to better compete for the market while still providing a quality saw.. Possibly getting different contracts for different motors etc.. They also struggled with the weight of the arms for the small motors they run so they had several different arm designs trying to cut weight out of them with slots bored through them.. etc. etc. after all the arms are solid machined aluminum.. not cheap lighter weight castings that most other saws used.. might have some to do with the weak motor issues they experience with some saws and why they ran a few different motors over the years.

I believe Hawk probably sold way more saws than Hegner did due to the price points. We have a lot of different brands to choose from these days for mid -  high end saws.. most are basically rebranded Excaliburs with some minor different clamp designs etc.. but back then you either took a Delta, Hawk, or Hegner.. and honestly there was really only 1 high end Delta and the rest were more of a entry level saw.. back then I feel like Hawk was the Pegas of today.. they made quite a name for themselves.. and most everyone would like to get one.. Hegner just stayed in their lane and charged a premium price through the years. 

I think both or all three saws are great saws.. but Hawk probably outsold the others and made a saw that last a lifetime hence there is still tons of those older 80's and 90's saws out there floating around. 

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, Scrappile said:

I was not comparing saws, at least not my intent, I was trying to describe what I  see available on the market related I guess to original price range. I Have owned all from entry level craftsman to Hegner including Dewalt, Excalibur, Seyco (Excalibur type).  I "acquired the taste" for a Hegner fairly quickly, I admit there were somethings to get use too.  But it is my one saw I would not part with.  But I like to try saws and Hawk is one high end saw I have not sat at.  I would like to. But I am finding it difficult to find the one that would be acceptable.  Older ones are plentiful but I have read many negatives.  There are newer ones but at their price range I feel hesitant because of the upgrades and mods.  They seem important.  A hegner for sell I can just look at it a picture and see what era it is and what Modifications are important to me.   Not so with Hawk.   I think my comparison is fair,as to what is availble in the used market.  I have been scrolling for many year and I know the history of the Excalibur saws.  I did not compare excaulibur to Hawk I compared the number of used on the market.

I got you. But for the same reason I also stated why I think you are seeing more Hawks than the other 2 saws you mentioned. I am not really comparing performance wise, I am comparing makes and models that have hit the market. There are by far more models of Hawks out there than the other 2 and as said some models were not as good so they made another model. Maybe just a change in motors but still that constitutes as a new model.  These are highend saws and production saws. I bet you there are more Hawks sold than the other 2 for sure. Hawk and Hegner saws were highly touted at woodworking shows at least the ones I went through back in the day. That was my only point. The Hegner has not changed much since it started. Excalibur is not as old as either of those saws. Again just my opinion. As far as sitting behind a Hawk saw, I am sure you would enjoy the movement and low vibration and ease of use. I am a Hawk user and love mine. I have had the chance to try a few saws over the years as these saws use to make it to the scrollsaw picnics that were put on in different states way back in the 90's. Having recently selling my Hegner and Dewalt a few years ago I do not regret sawing on them but to thin the herd I kept the 220 and 226 Hawks. Very highend saws.

Edited July 3 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Norm Fengstad]

Where I live only a few cheap low end saws on the Kljiji market

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

One saw that many people forget about that was one of the highest priced saws back around 1999 was made by Ernie Mellon called the Eclipse. It was the revolution to the front back movement in all saws even the short linkage saws such as the Excalibur and then the Dewalts and so on. They competed for $$$ also back in those days. I do not believe these saws are even made any more. Ernie passed in 2015. They were a true 90 degree travel of the blade with no rocking back and forth. Probably some of them still out there too. 

[Scrappile]

11 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I got you. But for the same reason I also stated why I think you are seeing more Hawks than the other 2 saws you mentioned. I am not really comparing performance wise, I am comparing makes and models that have hit the market. There are by far more models of Hawks out there than the other 2 and as said some models were not as good so they made another model. Maybe just a change in motors but still that constitutes as a new model.  These are highend saws and production saws. I bet you there are more Hawks sold than the other 2 for sure. Hawk and Hegner saws were highly touted at woodworking shows at least the ones I went through back in the day. That was my only point. The Hegner has not changed much since it started. Excalibur is not as old as either of those saws. Again just my opinion. As far as sitting behind a Hawk saw, I am sure you would enjoy the movement and low vibration and ease of use. I am a Hawk user and love mine. I have had the chance to try a few saws over the years as these saws use to make it to the scrollsaw picnics that were put on in different states way back in the 90's. Having recently selling my Hegner and Dewalt a few years ago I do not regret sawing on them but to thin the herd I kept the 220 and 226 Hawks. Very highend saws.

I agree.  My daughter several years ago moon lighted for a company the cut and sold the little items like plywood flags that you can buy at craft stores.  They were for decorating.  Probably mass-produced with lasers nowadays. Any way they had a whole room full of Hawk saws.  When they went out of business those saw went on Craigslist.  My daughter was able to give me some very good tips on how to, when I started scrolling.  

[TAIrving]

In the Houston area, in addition to the low-end saws, I see one Hegner (overpriced) and one Hawk (very old) plus the PSWoods saw I bought and cleaned up and listed.  

There is one interesting saw, CUTAWL K9A.  I can only guess at the vintage of this one.

Vintage CUTAWL K9A PRECISION JIG/SCROLL SAW - antiques - by owner - collectibles sale - craigslist.