Flattening stock

[rash_powder]

Pretty much every ornament I have ever cut came out of a 1/4" thick board that had a cup or twist to it.  I try to be choosy and select straight and flat material, but its tough to find.  Sometimes I feel the boards move when broken down to manageable sizes also.  

Do you guys just deal with it or try to flatten one side with a drum sander/planer/jointer?  I have just been dealing with it as I don't have any other option; but have been seriously considering buying or building a drum sander.  

I also get some blade squeal from time to time, and I think its small gaps in the wood buzzing with the blade, so having one side nice and flat may help with that.  The squeal doesn't hurt anything, its just wicked annoying.  

What do you all do?

[dgman]

It’s important to understand what causes the warp or twist, and for the most part, its uneven moister absorption or drying. If you purchase thin boards, it is important to provide equal air movement around the board. If it is just a few boards, then just lean them against a wall or work bench to allow equal air movement. Do not lay them flat on any surface. This does not allow for equal air movement. The same applies if you resaw or plane your boards. You must provide for equal air circulation around the board. If it is a lot of boards, it is best to stack and sticker the boards. That is stacking the boards on top of each other with stickers or thin sticks in between each board to allow for equal air circulation around each board. Either way, you must allow for some time to allow the boards to equalize to the environment of your shop.

As for trying to take the cup out of a warped board, you might spray a little water on the cupped side of the board, then apply a little heat with a heat gun or hair dryer to the wetted surface. This trick works sometimes.

 I make and sell a lot of ornaments each year, so I stack cut all of my ornaments. Beacuse I have a full woodworking shop, I can mill all of my thin stock. I either plane or resaw my blanks to 3/16” thickness. I will usually stack three layers. If any of the boards have a cup in them, I’ll stack the cups  against each other, then clamp the stacks together along the length of the boards. This will flatten the stack. Then I apply hot glue along all edges of the stack. After the hot glue sets and removing the clamps, the stack will be reasonably flat enough to cut. 

These picture show a stack of boards I bought online before I got my band saw for resawing. I cut the stickers from 3/4” pine.

[OCtoolguy]

I did that on our dining table. Wife not happy.

[kmmcrafts]

Years ago I also struggled with this issue.. back then I didn't have my bandsaw, planer and many other helpful tools to work with so I switched from timber to cutting plywood.. Now before someone starts saying plywood warps too I'll say yes it can but it is way more stable than standard timber. Many will also say they don't like BBply as the grain is kind of just bland and also doesn't stain well.. I've been using all sorts of plywood from Cherry, Oak, and walnut etc. and I don't end up having to toss out too many because of voids etc.. and I've made 1000's of ornaments over the years.. I actually think I toss more bbply for the occasional football shaped interfering with the look of the ornament than I do with voids in the other plywood. I suppose it might be more issue with lots of fine details in a portrait type cutting but I've had very little issue with plywood. Especially plywood that is designed for use on lasers.. called project panels from Home Depot. That stuff has been good stuff for me but I haven't used a lot of it because some of them are not the same species on the back side.. so i just go to my local lumber supplier and buy full 4x8 sheets good on both sides.. There are good quality ply for laser use from other suppliers that is good on both sides.. bit pricey but better tossing out cupped boards.   

[BadBob]

16 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

project panels from Home Depot

I like them too. I have only tried the maple plywood panels. I have no local supplier, and Home Depot is a primary supplier. I get a discount and free shipping.





 

[BadBob]

I rarely encounter warped or cupped boards. Because most of what I make is small, using small pieces, these are easy to flatten by sanding.

I stack mine flat on wire shelving with no stickers.

[kmmcrafts]

25 minutes ago, BadBob said:

I like them too. I have only tried the maple plywood panels. I have no local supplier, and Home Depot is a primary supplier. I get a discount and free shipping.





 

I wish the pricing was closer to the BBply I get because I actually like cutting it better than the BBply. Cuts like butter on my laser too. I bought 3 packs of the 5/32" stuff one Maple, Birch, and Walnut. I wanted to get some of the Cherry but it's been out of stock every time I look.. at least for the 5/32" 

Probably price wise for running it on the laser would equal out because the lase tube only last so many hours and those hours diminish the higher power level you run it at.. I have to crank up the power more and a bit slower speed for BBply and quite a lot less power and faster speed for those project panels.  

[BadBob]

24 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

Probably price wise for running it on the laser would equal out because the lase tube only last so many hours and those hours diminish the higher power level you run it at.. I have to crank up the power more and a bit slower speed for BBply and quite a lot less power and faster speed for those project panels.  

You always need to run the numbers. I use a lot of poplar and would need to have it shipped to me or make a long road trip to get it. That would require me to buy a lot of wood per trip to make it worthwhile. I made a little spreadsheet and plugged in every source of poplar I could find. Surprise, the local big box stores were the lowest cost. Things that tipped the balance: Near zero waste and no additional shipping.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, BadBob said:

You always need to run the numbers. I use a lot of poplar and would need to have it shipped to me or make a long road trip to get it. That would require me to buy a lot of wood per trip to make it worthwhile. I made a little spreadsheet and plugged in every source of poplar I could find. Surprise, the local big box stores were the lowest cost. Things that tipped the balance: Near zero waste and no additional shipping.

Right, The BBply I get locally and get 10 60 x 60"  sheets at a time for about $200.. $200 in these project panels doesn't get me half of the amount of material. I have the lumber yard cut the sheets in half for easier handling but i still have to break them down to about sheet of paper size. Even have to break down the project panels for the laser as it's not big enough. Might be a different outcome as most hobby sized lasers like the glowforge etc. are the exact size of these project panels so in that case I just think I need a bigger laser,  .. To get a laser in that size is upwards of $2000 now days.. I could see where if i had one of these lasers I'd buy the project panels for convenience and less wear on saw blades etc to cut this stuff down.. I think this is why these project panels are pricey because the demand in the laser community for it.. most all the laser groups talk about using this stuff. Many of the laser users don't even have a shop, they just use a spare room and pipe the exhaust out a window. 

If I'd just go big though, I could just get a laser to put a 5 x 5 sheet of BBply in too.. that would be a $20,000 laser probably.. LOL 

Edited October 5 by kmmcrafts

[Wichman]

This is heresy and I'll probably be boiled in oil,drawn and quartered, and the remains burned at the stake.

I recently had some of my air dryed elm warp a little too much for a project. I took the pieces, sized for the project, into the shower. I rinsed the boards down with hot water and allowed the steam of the shower to soften the wood. I stacked the boards by size on a cinder block and then stacked three blocks on top. I let them dry for a week and a half. So far so good. It's been several weeks, and no return of the warp.

Your results may vary.

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, Wichman said:

This is heresy and I'll probably be boiled in oil,drawn and quartered, and the remains burned at the stake.

I recently had some of my air dryed elm warp a little too much for a project. I took the pieces, sized for the project, into the shower. I rinsed the boards down with hot water and allowed the steam of the shower to soften the wood. I stacked the boards by size on a cinder block and then stacked three blocks on top. I let them dry for a week and a half. So far so good. It's been several weeks, and no return of the warp.

Your results may vary.

I have heard of doing this... I think my brother once told me this. I'd love to use timber rather than ply but the amount of production with ornaments I do it's not very productive to spend weeks trying to get boards to do what you want / need them to do. 

I bought a bandsaw to resaw thicker boards down and plane them etc as I use them right away to prevent this but that is also a lot of time investment. I realize many of you are not selling etc. I'm just stating why plywood works best for my situation. 

Edited October 6 by kmmcrafts

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Actually warping can come from a few different reasons. All boards have internal stress built into them from how the tree grew. So many times that stress is released as the boards are sliced. Also boards cut from various sides of a tree due to how the board grew facing sun and things like this adds to it. Moisture in the boards when they were cut can lead to warping. Stacking and drying can lead to stress of the boards causing warping. Weather kiln dried or air dried can lead to boards warping so my point is too many factors to pinpoint why your board is warping. No way of knowing if buying off the internet what you are getting but sometimes your better vendors take the extra steps to choose better material and thus can reflect in pricing. So do not judge a book by its cover. When you get boards that were shipped it is always good to store and stack them so that are stickered to allow air drying before use. Those woods can come through so many different climate changes and need to settle down to yours. So do not be in a hurry to use and plan ahead. As far as BB plywood, that too falls in the same category and especially today because harvesting is being rushed more so these days as opposed to yesteryears. But plywood in itself is a more stable material just because the way it is manufactured and I do not need to go into that because we should all know how plywoods are made. 

Now with this all said one advantage we as scrollers have over cabinet makers and others that build dimensioned objects is that when we scroll fret work into a piece of wood no matter what it is it will release stress factors within that wood. This is not to say though it still can not warp because it will. Sealing with finishes does help. Framing pieces with more substantial pieces can help also. I am not familiar with the product you are all calling " Project Panels" I may have to look into this stuff some. If you can get in various species of woods is a great thing and if as stable as you say then need to see what it is made of because if all plywood then it has the same aspects of warping as all wood products do. Now the talk of laser use. remember one thing too when you apply heat to wood you change the characteristics of it too and can subject it to warping in ways it was not designed to. Remember wood is a natural product and any altering its characteristics can do things This goes for laser work, staining and finishing, cutting and thinning, and even painting. 

Now I too have a shop full of tools and always dimensioned my own lumber. I use very little BB I like the look of wood grain BB is dull but if painting and coloring then it could be what you need. Hate to paint natural woods.   But one thing I always had the ability to do was to select my own boards from reliable lumber yards. Both domestics and exotics. Breaking down woods for projects is all part of the fun and being able to call yourself a woodworker. ornaments are so easy to break down especially with todays tools such as battery operated saws and straight edge devices. You break them down to squares to fit your pattern. Not much waste at all. It is the same when doing scrolled projects. Lay patterns on top of wood and cut out. Maximize all woods very easily. We each have different needs and use what makes sense for what we do. If you are going through tons of sheets of BB for 1000's of ornaments then buy in bulk. and prepare for it. Store it in a manner that will stay flat. Again if we are to be woodworkers it takes more than a scrollsaw to get the job done. Happy woodworking.   

[Bill WIlson]

Wood will do some crazy and unpredictable things.  I cut a small plaque out of some 1/2" red oak once.  The wood was very dry and stable.  It was a cutoff from a larger piece, from another project and had been in my shop for a long time.

I colored it with some water based dye.  It was pretty much dry to the touch by the time I was ready to leave the shop for the day.  Without thinking, I set it down flat, on old t-shirt, good side up, and left.

I came back the next morning and the piece had curled up like a potato chip.  I had never seen this type of extreme warping in such a small piece before.  It was actually kind of shocking.  My first instinct was to toss the piece into the scrap bin, but decided to turn it over and see what happened.  So I laid it face down and left alone for another day.  When I next checked it, it was flat as it was originally.  It has been hanging in my shop for several years and hasn't move a bit since.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

3 hours ago, Bill WIlson said:

Wood will do some crazy and unpredictable things.  I cut a small plaque out of some 1/2" red oak once.  The wood was very dry and stable.  It was a cutoff from a larger piece, from another project and had been in my shop for a long time.

I colored it with some water based dye.  It was pretty much dry to the touch by the time I was ready to leave the shop for the day.  Without thinking, I set it down flat, on old t-shirt, good side up, and left.

I came back the next morning and the piece had curled up like a potato chip.  I had never seen this type of extreme warping in such a small piece before.  It was actually kind of shocking.  My first instinct was to toss the piece into the scrap bin, but decided to turn it over and see what happened.  So I laid it face down and left alone for another day.  When I next checked it, it was flat as it was originally.  It has been hanging in my shop for several years and hasn't move a bit since.

 

And that was because you stained one side. It is like when you use veneers. To equalize the absorption of water and moisture to both sides of a project. The same goes for finishing. If you seal only one side you can open yourself to warping of the project. This why dipping is a great way to finish our scrollsawn projects. and why I never had a warping problem. Plus like I said fret sawing helps relieve stress points within the wood

[Bill WIlson]

I actually dyed the whole thing by dipping it in the solution.  My mistake was not allowing for airflow across both sides while it finished drying.  It was amazing how quickly and thoroughly it flattened back out by simply turning it over.  I didn't allow for airflow the 2nd time either, but it came out flat.