Update on the Bauer 22 inch from HF

[timelett]

Thanks 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Well I stopped by a HF today as I said I would do. I saw that Bauer saw but that is all I could do was see it. It was on a top shelf lashed down so no one could steal it. As someone could carry that out. The table is massive and beefy. The tension clamp up front is garbage. that will wear very quickly so change it to Pegas and you do better. Other than that I could not play with it. I could not see the name plate to see if it showed the origin of where it is made so I still do not know. Other than that it is what it prices out to be a mid range saw with who know how good the parts are. Time will tell. I never can understand why HF does that but many of their tools you can not play with. Not good sales program. 

[kmmcrafts]

42 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Well I stopped by a HF today as I said I would do. I saw that Bauer saw but that is all I could do was see it. It was on a top shelf lashed down so no one could steal it. As someone could carry that out. The table is massive and beefy. The tension clamp up front is garbage. that will wear very quickly so change it to Pegas and you do better. Other than that I could not play with it. I could not see the name plate to see if it showed the origin of where it is made so I still do not know. Other than that it is what it prices out to be a mid range saw with who know how good the parts are. Time will tell. I never can understand why HF does that but many of their tools you can not play with. Not good sales program. 

Yeah that's how it was when I went to look at it.. hard to see up on the top shelf and zip tied down. I imagine it is tied down not so much as theft but some idiot would probably spin it around and drop it off the top shelf onto their toe or something and then as sue happy as people are and insurance companies are these days there would be a lawsuit. It's not like the old days when people had some common sense. LOL

On the flip side, They have a great return policy.. or at least mine does.. Buy it, look it over and return it, LOL.  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

5 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Yeah that's how it was when I went to look at it.. hard to see up on the top shelf and zip tied down. I imagine it is tied down not so much as theft but some idiot would probably spin it around and drop it off the top shelf onto their toe or something and then as sue happy as people are and insurance companies are these days there would be a lawsuit. It's not like the old days when people had some common sense. LOL

On the flip side, They have a great return policy.. or at least mine does.. Buy it, look it over and return it, LOL.  

Yea but something like that you want to see it. I never buy anything sight unseen and can care how good return policy is. It now cost you to go return it. put some of the lesser tools up there. The lady right away wanted to go get me one out from the back. I said I am there to look. Picked up a bunch of tie wraps while I was there. use them all over the place. Going to my church this Sat to help put outside Christmas lights up so will use them there. Was not a waste of time anyway. Now they had another one smaller and it was on the middle shelf. You could have played with that one all you want. I would have switched them. Anyway that is my report. I have none. Good luck to all that buy them.  

[timelett]

13 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Well I stopped by a HF today as I said I would do. I saw that Bauer saw but that is all I could do was see it. It was on a top shelf lashed down so no one could steal it. As someone could carry that out. The table is massive and beefy. The tension clamp up front is garbage. that will wear very quickly so change it to Pegas and you do better. Other than that I could not play with it. I could not see the name plate to see if it showed the origin of where it is made so I still do not know. Other than that it is what it prices out to be a mid range saw with who know how good the parts are. Time will tell. I never can understand why HF does that but many of their tools you can not play with. Not good sales program. 

Not to cause a stir but when have you been to a power tool store that allows you or me to fiddle with the heavy power tools? I'm happy with mine but I am not running a business with it. And I am still using the clamps that came with the saw. I want to give it a fair chance to prove itself along with the saw before a honest report. I have always had a good experience with the Harbor freight staff and tools.

[kmmcrafts]

You know, used to be when something was made by a certain brand that company made the entire machine, but these days there are part makers and then there are assemblers. Really makes one wonder on these saws.. are the link arms and such all produced by the same manufacture and just purchased by a company to assemble all the components? I would almost argue the fact that most all these saws have the same made guts in them short of the frame and then painted and stickered to be whatever brand name the order came in from. The biggest differences I've seen on these are the blade chucks, the tilting mechanism is different on some of them, and some have the adjustable motor for adjusting the aggressiveness of the cutting..

My China made Excalibur when I rebuilt it I used all the parts from Seyco for the Seyco / Excalibur saw.. I really seen no difference in the parts other than the frame tubing on one saw was a different size.. but my China made saw is basically a Pegas or EX whatever brand you want to label it. The bearings in the original saw when new lasted about 250 hours use... The new parts I put in 2 years ago from Seyco has been 300 hours now and starting to be clunky knocky so it's getting ready for another rebuild.. I'm torn if I want to put money in it because I'm also starting to get the electrical hunting for the speed and on these I don't think it's a simple pot switch its more of a circuit board replacement.. and I'm not sure it's worth putting a few hundred into it or send it to a landfill once I strip off the pegas clamps and other useful parts. 

My point is.. I believe these saws are basically all the same.. choose your features and price range and roll with it. My biggest drawback on the HF saw is that you cannot turn / adjust the motor to change how aggressive it cuts.. same for the DeWalt..   Makes one wonder, can one possibly take a slotted motor mount ring off a EX type saw and mount it to a HF or DeWalt saw? Maybe..

Now could one of these companies ask the part makers for cheaper quality bearings etc. and cheapen the saw build.. Probably.. can one order parts for a different saw to get the better quality bearings? Well that is what I did with the Excalibur.. so if you're mechanical incline.. you likely could build whatever brand saw fancies you.. but are those parts really any different? Ray at Seyco has told me those parts are hit or miss on quality.. some folks get years out of the bearings and some not very long at all.. Is it bearing quality? Hard use of the machine? Environment of the saw such as damp location, heated shop, or cold shop, etc etc..   

My point is enjoy saving money on whatever budget saw you choose.. 

[timelett]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

You know, used to be when something was made by a certain brand that company made the entire machine, but these days there are part makers and then there are assemblers. Really makes one wonder on these saws.. are the link arms and such all produced by the same manufacture and just purchased by a company to assemble all the components? I would almost argue the fact that most all these saws have the same made guts in them short of the frame and then painted and stickered to be whatever brand name the order came in from. The biggest differences I've seen on these are the blade chucks, the tilting mechanism is different on some of them, and some have the adjustable motor for adjusting the aggressiveness of the cutting..

My China made Excalibur when I rebuilt it I used all the parts from Seyco for the Seyco / Excalibur saw.. I really seen no difference in the parts other than the frame tubing on one saw was a different size.. but my China made saw is basically a Pegas or EX whatever brand you want to label it. The bearings in the original saw when new lasted about 250 hours use... The new parts I put in 2 years ago from Seyco has been 300 hours now and starting to be clunky knocky so it's getting ready for another rebuild.. I'm torn if I want to put money in it because I'm also starting to get the electrical hunting for the speed and on these I don't think it's a simple pot switch its more of a circuit board replacement.. and I'm not sure it's worth putting a few hundred into it or send it to a landfill once I strip off the pegas clamps and other useful parts. 

My point is.. I believe these saws are basically all the same.. choose your features and price range and roll with it. My biggest drawback on the HF saw is that you cannot turn / adjust the motor to change how aggressive it cuts.. same for the DeWalt..   Makes one wonder, can one possibly take a slotted motor mount ring off a EX type saw and mount it to a HF or DeWalt saw? Maybe..

Now could one of these companies ask the part makers for cheaper quality bearings etc. and cheapen the saw build.. Probably.. can one order parts for a different saw to get the better quality bearings? Well that is what I did with the Excalibur.. so if you're mechanical incline.. you likely could build whatever brand saw fancies you.. but are those parts really any different? Ray at Seyco has told me those parts are hit or miss on quality.. some folks get years out of the bearings and some not very long at all.. Is it bearing quality? Hard use of the machine? Environment of the saw such as damp location, heated shop, or cold shop, etc etc..   

My point is enjoy saving money on whatever budget saw you choose.. 

A very good point from probably one of the most experienced with running and rebuilding these saws. One of  the reasons I purchased the Hawlk from you, also the price and your honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be running until I run out of projects. 

[kmmcrafts]

10 minutes ago, timelett said:

A very good point from probably one of the most experienced with running and rebuilding these saws. One of  the reasons I purchased the Hawlk from you, also the price and your honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be running until I run out of projects. 

You don't happen to want to make another trip to Michigan do you? I have a huge stockpile of Walnut lumber I need out of my way.. It's not high grade stuff as it didn't pass grade inspections at my brothers sawmill due to a knot in the middle or split in it etc.. They reject anything that doesn't have a good 6 or 8 ft section in it.. but there are many good sections in it for a bowl, clock, puzzle etc.. or? whatever you want to make.. perfect stuff for cutting boards and small craft projects where you can work around those bad areas.  I cut most of it down to 6 - 7 ish foot for my storage area. It's all rough cut and about 1" thick various widths.. most being at least 6" wide. I have 4 stacks of it about 3 ft tall stacks.. like to have at least one stack disappear. LOL.. I've already got rid of a couple stacks to my daughters boyfriend.. At my brothers mill yesterday and he asked me if I want some more as he has about a few hundred Bdft more he needs out of his way, LOL.. He just burns it in his outdoor boiler or it goes into his wood chipper or turned into sawdust depending on his demand at the time.  so I've already passed on it and said I don't need anymore walnut for a couple years, LOL.. but if he gets Maple, Cherry, or Poplar I'll take it, LOL

I just burned about 150bdft. of spalted maple because it doesn't work well for scrolled projects that I make.. I saved it from his wood burner and it sat in my shop for 10 years and I finally put it in my wood burner a couple months ago. Tried selling it first.. but nobody even sent a inquiry about it.. I put the walnut on marketplace but most want to come get just a couple boards.. then they want to dig through the pile and leave a big mess.. I'll burn that too before I deal with that kind of stuff again.. now see why my brother doesn't mess with this stuff.  

If you're interested send me a message. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

4 hours ago, timelett said:

Not to cause a stir but when have you been to a power tool store that allows you or me to fiddle with the heavy power tools? I'm happy with mine but I am not running a business with it. And I am still using the clamps that came with the saw. I want to give it a fair chance to prove itself along with the saw before a honest report. I have always had a good experience with the Harbor freight staff and tools.

Well I wish you all the best of luck with the HF saw. I never said it was not a worthy saw for the price. My opinions mean nothing. I do have some knowledge looking at tools for cosmetic opinions. Internals I go by reviews. As I said the reviews on this Bauer saw are just not old enough to make comments. Give it a few years and go from there or if someone who has really put it through some testing by using for some time. My thoughts on those blade clamps is simply one person's opinion. Plastic on metal is never a good combination. I do not own a saw that uses these so again have no experience with them but from moving them I can see a wear area and that would be a concern. There is a better option to replace so no big deal in the entire picture. 

 

As far as playing with the tools. go to Home depot or Lowes. Tools are not up on high shelves. yes alot of the handheld tools are now behind locked fences due to theft. Not the stores fault. I use to have a tool place here many years ago called Force Machinery and they had every tool able to be touched and even they would demonstrate for you. I bought my entire workshop from them. Spent a ton of money with them because of the service and quality of tools they sold. Years ago we had a Woodcraft store near me and there too you could walk in there and play with the tools and at least see first hand. They too will demonstrate the tools. All these type stores are long gone. I guess HF trys to emulate these type stores to a degree with lower prices. I would think a new tool would be out front and center for better advertising. My guess is there is not much call for those type saws so they put on a shelf and make room for tools that move more. They had a small bench top bandsaw up there also. Plus the size of these HF stores is small compared to all the things they carry. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I read Kevin's comment about the aggressiveness a saw can cut at. Again my opinion that is a non factor. My Rbi has 2 setting for the blade clamps and I never used the more aggressive setting the entire time I had it. I believe you can adjust aggressiveness with the blade used. When you start taking the saw out of parallel movement of the blade now you run the risk of overcutting your lines. That is why most saws went away from the "C" frame to a more up and down system like the close parallel link system on these type Dewalt saws. just an opinion.

[BadBob]

12 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Yea but something like that you want to see it. I never buy anything sight unseen and can care how good return policy is. It now cost you to go return it.

Make them take it out of the box. I have done this with tool chests after taking two home, unloading and unpacking them, only to find large holes in them that looked like they were made with a fork truck.

[BadBob]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

I'm also starting to get the electrical hunting for the speed and on these I don't think it's a simple pot switch its more of a circuit board replacement.

I replaced an EX21 controller board because of this.

[kmmcrafts]

34 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

I read Kevin's comment about the aggressiveness a saw can cut at. Again my opinion that is a non factor. My Rbi has 2 setting for the blade clamps and I never used the more aggressive setting the entire time I had it. I believe you can adjust aggressiveness with the blade used. When you start taking the saw out of parallel movement of the blade now you run the risk of overcutting your lines. That is why most saws went away from the "C" frame to a more up and down system like the close parallel link system on these type Dewalt saws. just an opinion.

That’s my whole point JT, many of these saws (DeWalt asan example) out of the box too aggressive for fine detail work. Many guys back in the day were drilling holes and modified Dewalt saws voiding warranty etc trying to make it a usable saw for the type of project they were working on. My Dewalt was aggressive as well but not as bad as some others I’ve seen and I was able to cope with it. Having had a saw that is adjustable is an option that I personally look for in a saw. Some saws are built well enough ( Hawk and Hegner ) where they have the blade going fairly straight up and down. You start getting into these other mid level saws it’s a feature worth having. Once set to a position that works for your style of cutting / projects you no longer need to adjust it. Having an adjustment is a plus. Not really a must have but surely nice to have.  

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

12 minutes ago, kmmcrafts said:

That’s my whole point JT, many of these saws (DeWalt asan example) out of the box too aggressive for fine detail work. Many guys back in the day were drilling holes and modified Dewalt saws voiding warranty etc trying to make it a usable saw for the type of project they were working on. My Dewalt was aggressive as well but not as bad as some others I’ve seen and I was able to cope with it. Having had a saw that is adjustable is an option that I personally look for in a saw. Some saws are built well enough ( Hawk and Hegner ) where they have the blade going fairly straight up and down. You start getting into these other mid level saws it’s a feature worth having. Once set to a position that works for your style of cutting / projects you no longer need to adjust it. Having an adjustment is a plus. Not really a must have but surely nice to have.  

I believe I shown the photos of my fix for my Dewalt too here. That was a flaw in the table design back then. The idea of these short parallel link saws was to take out the over cutting of the blade. The longer arms still have that problem to some extent. Thus the need for adjusting because it is an inherent problem. The old "C" arm saws had the same problem. I do not think the manufacturers put that feature on to correct the problem but to offer an option to do more aggressive cutting because technically scrollsawing is a slow process to begin with. Hegner attacks the problem with the floating blade clamps and RBI attacks with different blade holder positions and as you said the new saws have a different way of moving the holders in and out. I am sure this feature adds to the cost depending how they do it. Maybe the HF saw does not have a problem and thus no need for the feature. That would actually be a nice chart if someone or if these companies would supply that information as to how much back to front movement their saw has in a blade and if it is adjustable. I know on the pen turning site I belong to over the years we have established a library built up with valuable information about each pen kit available on the market which keeps increasing so that is never ending. Also other info about features of the kits. Along with a ton more info about pen turning. It is the most comprehensive site for pen making information on the web. Wish there was that data base in the scrollsawing world also. Every time a question comes up about a saw someone has to do a search. We can just refer the person to look in the library for quick access to info. 

[BadBob]

3 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

Having had a saw that is adjustable is an option that I personally look for in a saw.

Yes, but before I had an adjustable saw, I would have wondered why I needed it. The same goes for variable speed. When I first got my EX-21, I cranked it wide open, and away I went. I didn't understand why I needed a speed control until I ran into a project I had trouble cutting.

[timelett]

8 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

You don't happen to want to make another trip to Michigan do you? I have a huge stockpile of Walnut lumber I need out of my way.. It's not high grade stuff as it didn't pass grade inspections at my brothers sawmill due to a knot in the middle or split in it etc.. They reject anything that doesn't have a good 6 or 8 ft section in it.. but there are many good sections in it for a bowl, clock, puzzle etc.. or? whatever you want to make.. perfect stuff for cutting boards and small craft projects where you can work around those bad areas.  I cut most of it down to 6 - 7 ish foot for my storage area. It's all rough cut and about 1" thick various widths.. most being at least 6" wide. I have 4 stacks of it about 3 ft tall stacks.. like to have at least one stack disappear. LOL.. I've already got rid of a couple stacks to my daughters boyfriend.. At my brothers mill yesterday and he asked me if I want some more as he has about a few hundred Bdft more he needs out of his way, LOL.. He just burns it in his outdoor boiler or it goes into his wood chipper or turned into sawdust depending on his demand at the time.  so I've already passed on it and said I don't need anymore walnut for a couple years, LOL.. but if he gets Maple, Cherry, or Poplar I'll take it, LOL

I just burned about 150bdft. of spalted maple because it doesn't work well for scrolled projects that I make.. I saved it from his wood burner and it sat in my shop for 10 years and I finally put it in my wood burner a couple months ago. Tried selling it first.. but nobody even sent a inquiry about it.. I put the walnut on marketplace but most want to come get just a couple boards.. then they want to dig through the pile and leave a big mess.. I'll burn that too before I deal with that kind of stuff again.. now see why my brother doesn't mess with this stuff.  

If you're interested send me a message. 

Thanks for the offer, my older brother has gotten out of wood working, and gave me a truck load of pieces of stock for scroll saw patterns and pieces 1/2 in and thicker. 

Also we are going to be moving, Darlene is already questioning my sanity for saving the wood I already have.

[KenofShelby]

Went to HF yesterday, and they willingly fired up that Bauer saw for me.

[DrPete]

Too bad Michigan is a bit of a drive for me in California. I would make a road trip and fill up a trailer with maple and the walnut.

Now a bit off topic since I'm the new kid on the block, how does any of these saws compare to my Delta 40-440?

Bottom feed, top feed? I guess you have to be making something with a LOT of inside cuts to bother caring?

I just finally got some better blades since the tiny jewelers blades I was using lasted about one project if I was lucky.

I have to be careful, I've done this before, too many toys. My wife still cannot understand why I have 3 screwdrivers

Actually I have about 100 but who's counting.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

3 hours ago, DrPete said:

Too bad Michigan is a bit of a drive for me in California. I would make a road trip and fill up a trailer with maple and the walnut.

Now a bit off topic since I'm the new kid on the block, how does any of these saws compare to my Delta 40-440?

Bottom feed, top feed? I guess you have to be making something with a LOT of inside cuts to bother caring?

I just finally got some better blades since the tiny jewelers blades I was using lasted about one project if I was lucky.

I have to be careful, I've done this before, too many toys. My wife still cannot understand why I have 3 screwdrivers

Actually I have about 100 but who's counting.

Are you talking about the old vintage cast iron scrollsaw made by Delta/Rockwell? That is a whole other beast. Jewlers blades are made for cutting metals, not wood. I have never scrolled on one of those. I am at a loss for an answer. They should cut the straightest of all the saws out there because the motion is straight up and down and no over cutting. No reason it would not work if it takes 5" blades. I do not know how blades are installed but that will tell you if it is a top feed or bottom feed saw. 

Edited November 22 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[kmmcrafts]

5 hours ago, DrPete said:

Too bad Michigan is a bit of a drive for me in California. I would make a road trip and fill up a trailer with maple and the walnut.

Now a bit off topic since I'm the new kid on the block, how does any of these saws compare to my Delta 40-440?

Bottom feed, top feed? I guess you have to be making something with a LOT of inside cuts to bother caring?

I just finally got some better blades since the tiny jewelers blades I was using lasted about one project if I was lucky.

I have to be careful, I've done this before, too many toys. My wife still cannot understand why I have 3 screwdrivers

Actually I have about 100 but who's counting.

Those old Deltas are built like a tank.. Parts for most of them are obsolete and they are not the most user friendly saw out there for sure, but they'll get the job done..

[DrPete]

That Delta Saw fits right in with all the rest of the equipment I've owned over the years.

I don't have a problem using it, raise the bottom holder to top, install the blade into the bottom holder (the screw is hard to see at times because it's a flat blade screw and buried) then put into the top for tension.

I  just realized that the newer saws move the saw blade more and because mine just goes straight up and down I guess that's why I haven't broken any blade yet. Give me time, I've only made a couple of projects.

On the side note about older equipment, I rebuilt this one so I know how it works and can repair it.

In my shop I had a 1942 Blanchard Grinder, 1942 South Bend Lathe, 1942 Clark Fork Lift, And when I was cleaning up one of the old piston grinders there under the grim and stuff was a brass name plate that said "War Finish" so I just figured it was 1942 also. I guess you can say I like the machines that are easier to maintain and are built to last.

 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

28 minutes ago, DrPete said:

That Delta Saw fits right in with all the rest of the equipment I've owned over the years.

I don't have a problem using it, raise the bottom holder to top, install the blade into the bottom holder (the screw is hard to see at times because it's a flat blade screw and buried) then put into the top for tension.

I  just realized that the newer saws move the saw blade more and because mine just goes straight up and down I guess that's why I haven't broken any blade yet. Give me time, I've only made a couple of projects.

On the side note about older equipment, I rebuilt this one so I know how it works and can repair it.

In my shop I had a 1942 Blanchard Grinder, 1942 South Bend Lathe, 1942 Clark Fork Lift, And when I was cleaning up one of the old piston grinders there under the grim and stuff was a brass name plate that said "War Finish" so I just figured it was 1942 also. I guess you can say I like the machines that are easier to maintain and are built to last.

 

I guess you can say that is a bottom feeder saw then. This means you install the blade in bottom clamp first, thread the blade through a fret hole to be cut and then attach the top clamp. Does not sound like alot of fun though with that saw. yes it can work and do a good job. The action on the saw being straight up and down is desired alot in all scrollsaws. Good luck. It still out of my realm of knowledge though.