Seyco Scroll Saw Dust Collector

[kmmcrafts]

Well, those little vacuums aren't designed for this type of use.. Probably decent for the hobby user but in a commercial type setting save up and buy something that'll last or has a good warranty.. I knew going into one of these that would be the case.. They last just about the life of a Excalibur scroll saw.. as the first vacuum burnt up shortly after I rebuilt the saw the first time.. The saw is getting to that point again and last night out cutting some orders and the vacuum stopped working.. same deal.. motor locked up. Good thing I've been buying some spare vacuums off eBay.. I have 2 spares that were new in box returns etc.. and got them cheap.. like $15 for one and $25 for the other. Meanwhile I'm not sure how much more scrolling I'll continue doing as much of my stuff is turning over to laser work.. not sure I want to invest $500 into a festool or like vacuum if I'm cutting back on the scroll work anyway. Maybe just keep watching eBay for those little Metro Vac 500 vacuums to keep a spare around. LOL

[barb.j.enders]

I have a spare Metro vac I would sell to you but the shipping wouldn't make it cost effective!

[Scrappile]

I do not think even many of the expensive ones hold up the going on and off all the time like is done with a scroll saw. They are more for sander or circular saws that go for a while and then off.  My Fien only lasted 3 years and 3 months.  I now have an on/off foot switch for my vac.  I leave it going when going from hole, to the next.  I could be wrong, just my theory. But I also use an on/off foot switch for my scroll saws.  I do not care for the dead man switches. 

[kmmcrafts]

36 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

I do not think even many of the expensive ones hold up the going on and off all the time like is done with a scroll saw. They are more for sander or circular saws that go for a while and then off.  My Fien only lasted 3 years and 3 months.  I now have an on/off foot switch for my vac.  I leave it going when going from hole, to the next.  I could be wrong, just my theory. But I also use an on/off foot switch for my scroll saws.  I do not care for the dead man switches. 

Yeah, that is what I was always thinking too.. which is why I just stick to these cheapy metrovac 500's.. I can get a replacement motor for around $80 but so far I've been lucky enough to find new open box ones on eBay for less than $40. I get a couple years out of one so that's not horrible, LOL 

[BadBob]

Besides wearing the switch out, what does switching from on-off do to wear out a vacuum?

[kmmcrafts]

37 minutes ago, BadBob said:

Besides wearing the switch out, what does switching from on-off do to wear out a vacuum?

I'm not sure on this really.. and I'm really not certain that it's anything to do with the switch on the ones I wear out since the motors lock up is what I have the problem with.. These Metro Vacs aren't designed to be a dust extractor.. and when I take them apart there is a pack of fine dust all around back behind the motor so in reality they aren't that great for collecting the dust.. Obviously there is "some dust" getting past the bag / filter and exiting the exhaust of the vac. I'm thinking mine burn up more from heat.. This fine dust usually packs into the bag and though it looks mostly empty you can tell the vac is working harder because it gets louder. The one I got from Seyco has a different exhaust port on the back and it's packed with foam.. I'm assuming it's to work as a muffler OR filter to help screen the fine dust that does escape. But the ones I got off eBay kinda have a blower on the back where you can hook a hose to use as a blower. I had been swapping the one from the Seyco onto the replacements I've been getting.. of coarse after cleaning the foam of dust etc.. but this time I'm going to experiment with just leaving the blower exhaust port on it as it's not really any louder so long as I put a piece of hose on it that it came with. I'm going to see but I'm betting the foam is restricting it and making it run hotter. 

[Denny Knappen]

I have one and don't use it often, so no problem.  Only complaint, no top pick up.

[OCtoolguy]

Kev, I routed mine through a mini cyclone so most of the dust never gets to the vac. Works great. I have the vac and saw both on the same foot switch. So far, all good.

[BadBob]

2 hours ago, BadBob said:

Besides wearing the switch out, what does switching from on-off do to wear out a vacuum?

To clarify, I keep seeing posts that claim starting and stopping a vacuum will wear it out quickly. I want someone to enlighten me on how this would cause wear.

 

[Wichman]

34 minutes ago, BadBob said:

To clarify, I keep seeing posts that claim starting and stopping a vacuum will wear it out quickly. I want someone to enlighten me on how this would cause wear.

 

If these are brushed universal motors then the frequent starting and stopping will cause excess wear on the brushes. If indeed there is fine dust working its way into the motor, then the dust will coat the brushes and armature causing more electrical resistance, causing wear. And, if the fine dust is collecting on the internal motor fan blades, then the cooling airflow will be reduced (10% change in the blade geometry can result in a 90% reduction in airflow). In addition, starting and stopping frequently can prevent the cooling system from effectively removing heat from the motor, causing overheating. Add all these things together and you have a recipe for disaster.  

[kmmcrafts]

1 hour ago, OCtoolguy said:

Kev, I routed mine through a mini cyclone so most of the dust never gets to the vac. Works great. I have the vac and saw both on the same foot switch. So far, all good.

Yes mine has a separator that came with the kit from Seyco.. https://seyco.com/product/dv-10a-cyclonic-action-scroll-saw-dust-collector/ 

I don't get a lot of dust but what little bit does get into the bag of the vac. as fine and powdery as it is it only takes a small amount of coating in that bag to slow down the air flow through the vac. I believe that needs "some" decent flow to cool the motor.. I used to be able to tell when the bag was a bit plugged with the dust because the vac keeps getting louder and louder. I also wonder if that foam that was in the exhaust port was restricting the flow.. the foam was only lined the outer part of the canister so it was still open through the middle.. I left the foam out of it this time to see if it'll last longer or if it's going to blow dust on through it.  

[dgman]

I have my scroll saw as well as all other machines hooked up to my dust collector. A lot quieter and better suction. I don’t have it switched to the saw but have a remote control. It stays on between blade changes. Been doing this way for twenty five years. It also has a homemade separator.

[Scrappile]

19 hours ago, BadBob said:

To clarify, I keep seeing posts that claim starting and stopping a vacuum will wear it out quickly. I want someone to enlighten me on how this would cause wear.

 

If you are talking about this thread, I think I am the only one who implied that. And that is just a theory I have.  No fact to back up myself.   

[rash_powder]

Those Metrovac's use brushes.  They will need to be replaced from time to time, as well as the springs that force them into the commutator.  Also, the commutator will eventually need to be serviced (which is a DIY procedure as no one does it on these motors) due to the arc eroding the material and causing surface imperfections that then cause the brushes to bounce causing arcs that erode material etc etc.  

I've been using a blower from a water heater or furnace for my dust collection.  I think its a draft inducer.  No commutator or brushes as I believe its a  shaded pole type ac motor.  It prob would be quieter than it is if it had good bushings; but I got it used and there is a bit of wear going on.  I've been questing for a quiet fan/motor setup similar to a full size dust collector.  I don't understand why we can't have a small, quiet fan/motor like that.  

[BadBob]

45 minutes ago, Scrappile said:

If you are talking about this thread, I think I am the only one who implied that. And that is just a theory I have.  No fact to back up myself.   

I did some research on this and found that you are correct. However, everything I saw was not specific, meaning it would depend on the motor, environment, duty cycle, etc. In short, it's not something I would be concerned with.

The first vacuum I used in my shop lasted more than 30 years, with only an occasional filter change and an occasional piece of broken plastic. It was still working when I got rid of it, but I could not buy Cleanstream filters to fit.

[CharleyL]

My scroll saw/ drill press/ sanding table vacuum is a repurposed whole house central vacuum with a centrifugal dust separator on a 20 gallon repurposed grease barrel, a true DIY system, since I repaired the broken vacuum, saving it from the dumpster. It needed a new motor and a control circuit transformer. This vacuum has frequently been run for 8-10 hour periods non stop. The unit is located in my shop's attic, so I added an indicator light on the shop ceiling to remind me that it's running, as it is very quiet. Only the noise of the air flowing into the hose end is easily heard.  Dust removal from the 20 gallon barrel is usually done once per year and it has usually only been 1/2-3/4 full. The dust container on the bottom of the central vac has never had more than a trace of dust on it's inside, but I clean it when cleaning the 20 gallon barrel. The exhaust from this vacuum is vented outside my shop just under the roof soffit, so even the micro sized dust never makes it back into my shop.  When I got the vacuum from the dumpster, most of the in-wall pipes and inlets, and the 25' hose and it's attachments were also in the dumpster with it (from a major home renovation) so I didn't need to buy much, other than the motor and transformer, to complete the installation in my shop. I even installed an inlet outdoors next to the passage door into my shop so I can take the hose outside, connect it to this inlet, and vacuum my cars and trucks with it. The motor and transformer were the biggest expense, but I have less that $200 in total cost for this vacuum system, not counting my time and donation of barrel to this project by my son.

Charley

 

[rash_powder]

On 12/12/2024 at 12:59 PM, CharleyL said:

My scroll saw/ drill press/ sanding table vacuum is a repurposed whole house central vacuum with a centrifugal dust separator on a 20 gallon repurposed grease barrel, a true DIY system, since I repaired the broken vacuum, saving it from the dumpster. It needed a new motor and a control circuit transformer. This vacuum has frequently been run for 8-10 hour periods non stop. The unit is located in my shop's attic, so I added an indicator light on the shop ceiling to remind me that it's running, as it is very quiet. Only the noise of the air flowing into the hose end is easily heard.  Dust removal from the 20 gallon barrel is usually done once per year and it has usually only been 1/2-3/4 full. The dust container on the bottom of the central vac has never had more than a trace of dust on it's inside, but I clean it when cleaning the 20 gallon barrel. The exhaust from this vacuum is vented outside my shop just under the roof soffit, so even the micro sized dust never makes it back into my shop.  When I got the vacuum from the dumpster, most of the in-wall pipes and inlets, and the 25' hose and it's attachments were also in the dumpster with it (from a major home renovation) so I didn't need to buy much, other than the motor and transformer, to complete the installation in my shop. I even installed an inlet outdoors next to the passage door into my shop so I can take the hose outside, connect it to this inlet, and vacuum my cars and trucks with it. The motor and transformer were the biggest expense, but I have less that $200 in total cost for this vacuum system, not counting my time and donation of barrel to this project by my son.

Charley

 

What kind of motor do you have?  The central vac ( I assume central vac) motor I have is a 3 stage unit and its quite loud.  I don't have it in a seperate location though - my little DIY dust seperator is next to my saw all the time.  I've got an old tread mill speed control to power it and the choke coil from the same tread mill to help with noise (some LED lights on the same circuit acted weird when it ran).  

[CharleyL]

It's a Beam (Electrolux Mfgr.) and I believe it's a 2 stage. For suction capability, when I first installed it I was using a plastic 5 gallon pail under the Dust Deputy, and collapsed it within the first minute of use. I had heard that the pickle buckets from Firehouse Subs were stronger, so I purchased some of them. They proved to be only slightly stronger, mostly because they have additional molded in ribs around the top 1/3 of each. I solved the collapsing bucket problem by stacking 3  of them together. This not only tripled the ribs, so the top bucket basically had ribs all the way to the bottom, but tripled the bucket wall thickness, and I had no trouble with the vac collapsing the buckets after that.

A few months later my son brought me the metal barrel and I made a top for it out of 3/4 cabinet birch ply, two layers, with the bottom sized to just fit inside the barrel and the top layer 2" in diameter larger than the lower layer. I used a latex caulking compound as adhesive and to seal any voids in the edges of the ply. The bolts holding the Dust Deputy were 1/4-20 and also served to permanently hold the plywood layers together. The center hole in the plywood for the Dust Deputy was sized the same as the bottom hole of the Dust Deputy. I added a 1/2" thick by 1" closed cell foam Weatherstrip to the underside of the top layer of plywood, up against the smaller layer of plywood. It makes a good tight seal to the top rolled edge of the metal drum. Vacuum holds all this in place, so latches, etc. weren't needed. 

Charley

[stevan]

This is a Dyson that I picked up off the curb about 10 years ago. It has hundreds of hours on it and no telling how old it was when I picked it up.