finishing fretwork scrolling

[Sam777]

Hello all,

Happy new year to the forum members

Please help

I made a couple of 3/4 walnut text pieces and would like to them in liquid finish to get into all the cuts and corners and dry quickly.

What can I use?

Thank you in advance

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Very nice. I am trying to figure out how you did the lower lettering. Could you explain a little. Precision is excellent. Are they 3D letters added onto the face and did you make them?  For finishing, depends on what is your version of finish. Are you looking to top coat after you seal the wood and with what. Most of all my projects when I was scrolling and selling were dipped in Danish oil. It leaves a sealed project and also a nice warm feel to the piece. Rarely did I top coat but if a piece called for it I always used lacquer. Never ever have I used poly. The poly that is in Danish oil is so small amount it just is there to seal the wood. 

[Jim McDonald]

Really good looking.

How fast do you need it to dry? Dipping finishes and quick drying are generally two different items.

JT has a good idea with Danish oil, but it not a particularly rapid dry.

[Wichman]

Yes, just how fast do you need it dry? And what are you willing to pay for speed? 

There is a new finish that dries/cured in two minutes under UV light. Last I checked it was more than $200/gal.

My go to finish for speed is Shellac (in a can) diluted 50/50 with denatured alcohol. Dries in minutes, cures in a day or so, faster in a warm area. And no need to sand in between coats.

[Sam777]

2 hours ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Very nice. I am trying to figure out how you did the lower lettering. Could you explain a little. Precision is excellent. Are they 3D letters added onto the face and did you make them?  For finishing, depends on what is your version of finish. Are you looking to top coat after you seal the wood and with what. Most of all my projects when I was scrolling and selling were dipped in Danish oil. It leaves a sealed project and also a nice warm feel to the piece. Rarely did I top coat but if a piece called for it I always used lacquer. Never ever have I used poly. The poly that is in Danish oil is so small amount it just is there to seal the wood. 

Thank you JT. The bottom text I used my newly aquired laser on 1/2" hard maple  it is just laser etched.

As for Danish oil, wouldn't drip and cause isicles on the bottom side as it is drying? that is my concern about any liquid finish. I don't need a top coat.

Thank you

[Sam777]

4 minutes ago, Wichman said:

Yes, just how fast do you need it dry? And what are you willing to pay for speed? 

There is a new finish that dries/cured in two minutes under UV light. Last I checked it was more than $200/gal.

My go to finish for speed is Shellac (in a can) diluted 50/50 with denatured alcohol. Dries in minutes, cures in a day or so, faster in a warm area. And no need to sand in between coats.

with shellac would you not have problems with dripping from the corners and inside cuts as it is drying?

Thank you

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

42 minutes ago, Sam777 said:

Thank you JT. The bottom text I used my newly aquired laser on 1/2" hard maple  it is just laser etched.

As for Danish oil, wouldn't drip and cause isicles on the bottom side as it is drying? that is my concern about any liquid finish. I don't need a top coat.

Thank you

No you have to wipe it down after you dip it. At times depending what type wood it may bleed some but if you wipe it down it should be fine. Danish oil does have a after smell and does take a few days to dry. I used  Watco Danish oil on just about every project I made. Many times if I want a little more shine I wiped on a coat of Watco paste wax to really give a nice sheen. Just my way of doing things. If you are worried about pooling in nooks and crannys you can always air blow them out before they dry. 

The bottom lettering came out very nice and kind of figured it was not scrolled. I am sure it will be well received. 

Edited December 31, 2024 by JTTHECLOCKMAN

[Sam777]

Thank you J.Tm

I will do it your way and see how it comes out.

God bless and Happy New Year

Sammy

[kmmcrafts]

You might run into problems with dipping the "laser" engraved part.. If you're able to take that lower engraved part off I would do so before dipping. I found that laser engraving and danish oil don't always mix well with projects.. The burn residue is sort of an fine dark ash and can run in the dipping method of finishing.. In my case some will and some don't so you might get lucky in that it doesn't or you might not.. Most anything I used to do was dipped in Danish oil but after acquiring my lasers I started using lacquer.. it dries fast and you really don't have to sand in between coats as the solvents are potent enough to sort of melt into the previous coat so long as it's not fully cured like 60 days or more.. You can spray really light coats into the hard to get to areas first and then have at it with the rest once you get the coverage you need in the tight spots..   

[Bill WIlson]

2 hours ago, kmmcrafts said:

You might run into problems with dipping the "laser" engraved part.. If you're able to take that lower engraved part off I would do so before dipping. I found that laser engraving and danish oil don't always mix well with projects.. The burn residue is sort of an fine dark ash and can run in the dipping method of finishing.. In my case some will and some don't so you might get lucky in that it doesn't or you might not.. Most anything I used to do was dipped in Danish oil but after acquiring my lasers I started using lacquer.. it dries fast and you really don't have to sand in between coats as the solvents are potent enough to sort of melt into the previous coat so long as it's not fully cured like 60 days or more.. You can spray really light coats into the hard to get to areas first and then have at it with the rest once you get the coverage you need in the tight spots..   

My process is the same, except substitute shellac for lacquer.  I've never dipped in shellac, but I spray it all the time.  It's my go to finish for scroll work.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

Sam just to be clear here so you do not blame me for any problems. If Kevin says there could be problems with the laser work then I would listen to him he is the king of the laser on this site. I have no knowledge. As far as spraying shellac and lacquers that is tricky. But it will not darken the woods so that is a plus. As I said I have used the dipping method my entire career of scrolling and used various of woods. Now I will tap the edge of the piece after dipping to shake any puddles of oil out. My method may not work for you. It is always hard to explain a method with words. Now any oil you use will darken the woods or give the lighter woods a more amber look. If you are going for clear finish than stay away from oils. Good luck.

[Wichman]

14 hours ago, Sam777 said:

with shellac would you not have problems with dripping from the corners and inside cuts as it is drying?

Thank you

Right after dipping I tap the piece against the side of the plastic tote I store the solution in, for about 30 seconds, I then hang the piece by a convenient hole in the piece and wait with a paper towel for about a minute to dab any droplets of Shellac. Wait about 15 minutes for the first coat to dry and then repeat. Allow to dry until hard , about an hour, then very lightly sand with 320 to remove any ridges or nubs. Use air to blow off any dust, then use spray Shellac ( I use rattle can ) with very light coats ( one pass ) until desired gloss is achieved.

Temperature and humidity are major factors in the dry/cure times. Too much heat to soon will cause bubbling of the Shellac ( the surface dries and the alcohol underneath forms bubbles as it escapes, to fix the soak the piece in alcohol briefly to dissolve the Shellac and continue) for the final coat allow to dry well and place in a warm area ( I put mine on a rack above a heater vent, surface temperature of 95° ), this helps to cure the Shellac to a hard finish.

[kmmcrafts]

Now that I have a bit more time I'll add a little more info. LOL

Dipping with the laser part won't hurt the engrave but it "may" make the engrave a lighter color.. for example if you have a nice dark grey or black engrave after dipping it it may change from dark grey / black to a lighter tone of grey and even at times it may wash most of the engrave color right off and then it'll just look like a slight different shade of the type of wood you used.. usually a darker shade but make it hard to see from a distance.. That's all I wanted to point out...

I'm no pro at the laser and CNC routed stuff but I did make a lot of scraps trying to figure out the finishing process when doing engraves and routed carvings as finishing is (for me) way more complex than just dropping a scrolled piece into some danish oil.. 

Something I've been meaning to try is to spray a couple light coats of polyurethane onto a laser engraved piece and then a couple days later dip it into Danish oil to see if that would help preserve the dark engraving. The chemicals in the Danish oil will definitely melt away the sprayed on poly.. been there done that by accident on some other experiment LOL. But in doing that it might protect the engave just enough to hold the color while sealing up all the other work.. Also if you do dip it.. it as is.. I think you'll get better results if you try not to flood the engraved area too much.. I have had success just dripping some danish oil onto the engraved parts and then dipping the rest.. I think you might be okay doing that.. just don't drop it into a pan and let it set there for 10 minutes, LOL..  You probably could just dip a rag or brush into the oil and sort of wipe / dab it onto the engrave area trying not to brush or wipe across the engrave too hard.. 

These are just my experiences.. using a c02 laser.. I understand that the diode type lasers work differently and most times the engrave from a diode laser will come out better and darker.. I do not have any experience with the diode type laser as I have never used my big 25" x 25" diode laser I got 7 years ago, LOL.. I mostly wanted to do cutting and quicker engraving so the C02 is what I went with instead.. diodes are very slow.. but do amazing job with engraving so long as you don't mind the waiting time of the laser. 

IF, you end up dipping this and the engrave lightens up, provided you can get the piece back into the laser you could just engrave it again and darken it up.. I've learned to dip or spray lacquer before the engrave on a few different pieces to avoid the issue.. just be sure the finish is good and dry.. the finish will catch fire very easy, LOL.. don't ask how I know.

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

1 hour ago, kmmcrafts said:

Now that I have a bit more time I'll add a little more info. LOL

Dipping with the laser part won't hurt the engrave but it "may" make the engrave a lighter color.. for example if you have a nice dark grey or black engrave after dipping it it may change from dark grey / black to a lighter tone of grey and even at times it may wash most of the engrave color right off and then it'll just look like a slight different shade of the type of wood you used.. usually a darker shade but make it hard to see from a distance.. That's all I wanted to point out...

I'm no pro at the laser and CNC routed stuff but I did make a lot of scraps trying to figure out the finishing process when doing engraves and routed carvings as finishing is (for me) way more complex than just dropping a scrolled piece into some danish oil.. 

Something I've been meaning to try is to spray a couple light coats of polyurethane onto a laser engraved piece and then a couple days later dip it into Danish oil to see if that would help preserve the dark engraving. The chemicals in the Danish oil will definitely melt away the sprayed on poly.. been there done that by accident on some other experiment LOL. But in doing that it might protect the engave just enough to hold the color while sealing up all the other work.. Also if you do dip it.. it as is.. I think you'll get better results if you try not to flood the engraved area too much.. I have had success just dripping some danish oil onto the engraved parts and then dipping the rest.. I think you might be okay doing that.. just don't drop it into a pan and let it set there for 10 minutes, LOL..  You probably could just dip a rag or brush into the oil and sort of wipe / dab it onto the engrave area trying not to brush or wipe across the engrave too hard.. 

These are just my experiences.. using a c02 laser.. I understand that the diode type lasers work differently and most times the engrave from a diode laser will come out better and darker.. I do not have any experience with the diode type laser as I have never used my big 25" x 25" diode laser I got 7 years ago, LOL.. I mostly wanted to do cutting and quicker engraving so the C02 is what I went with instead.. diodes are very slow.. but do amazing job with engraving so long as you don't mind the waiting time of the laser. 

IF, you end up dipping this and the engrave lightens up, provided you can get the piece back into the laser you could just engrave it again and darken it up.. I've learned to dip or spray lacquer before the engrave on a few different pieces to avoid the issue.. just be sure the finish is good and dry.. the finish will catch fire very easy, LOL.. don't ask how I know.

Gee Wiz . What if he sprayed the laser area with Shellac? Wonder what it is that causes that reaction. Is it all oils? What about a walnut oil being that is a walnut piece? Lacquer is harsher than any oils because of the hardeners in it. Now Danish oil has poly in it. Maybe that is the ingredient that causes this. 

[kmmcrafts]

37 minutes ago, JTTHECLOCKMAN said:

Gee Wiz . What if he sprayed the laser area with Shellac? Wonder what it is that causes that reaction. Is it all oils? What about a walnut oil being that is a walnut piece? Lacquer is harsher than any oils because of the hardeners in it. Now Danish oil has poly in it. Maybe that is the ingredient that causes this. 

The laser leaves a bit of soot in the engraved area that sometimes washes away with the "flood" from dipping the project.. If you can spray a light coat of something on it to hold the soot in place and seal it off you could probably dip it in danish oil.. It's more about how the flooding of the liquid washing and moving the soot around.. if you can lightly ad the oil rather than flooding it but also have to be careful not to brush it away too.. some wood types are not so prone to do this too.. maybe it's just the experience I had when I first started doing laser projects I don't know.. but after ruining a couple pieces I figured out for me dipping is not the best option for finishing laser work. A diode laser engraves different from a c02 so maybe there would be no issues with one of those.. I'm not sure how woodburners finish their stuff.. maybe the Danish oil doesn't bother that type of stuff either.. just explaining my limited experiences with dipping engraved stuff.. As I also said not all materials had done this.. I never had any issues with Cherry.. Never done it on Maple or Walnut so? Red Oak is the one type that I did have issues with.. and you could hardly tell it was engraved.. now if I had engraved against the grain maybe that would be different? don't know..  

Looks to me like this was done on a diode laser.. there may not be any issue.. It's a beautiful piece and I'd hate to see him dip it and have it wash the darkness of the engrave away.. Though I think dipping that Walnut and the Maple contrast would really enhance the wood and I think it's the best option for this piece to make that wood just pop.. What I would do is engrave on a piece of scrap maple and give it a try first.. if it works then I would rather see it dipped.. no better finish for making the grain pop in my opinion.. just hate to see the engraved area get washed away IF it is not at least tested first. 

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

I agree dipping is the easiest and most complete way of finishing a piece. As I said I used it as my top coat as well. People loved the feel of the smoothness of the wood. Has alot to do with sanding. I sand all pieces to 220 grit.