Blade Problem Revisited

[greasemonkeyredneck]

Ok, I just finished stack cutting three last supper portraits last night. They were 3/16 inch thick and stacked three high. The wood was cottonwood, which is a soft wood that I would probably compare to pine.The wood is covered with masking tape and then the pattern glued to the tape. I tried the FD-2/0 spirals I had gotten from Mike's Workshop. They cut beautifully. The problem is they lasted about two minutes apiece. About thirty minutes into the project, and after already going through ten blades, I decided to back up and regroup. I remembered I still had about two dozen Dewalt #2 spirals I'd bought a while back on a clearance rack. I used them to finish the project. So, now I have a multi-layered problem.

 

First, several questions.

1. I hear everyone is using FD-2/0 spirals for portrait cuttings. What kind of wood are they using?

2. How thick is the wood being stacked, if at all?

3. How long do the FD-2/0 spirals last for them?

 

Now for some history of my problems.

1. I started out with spirals on Olsen #2 spirals. I loved them. They cut good and they lasted reasonable I thought at the time. In 3/4 wood, they would cut consistantly for twenty to thirty minutes.

2. At $5 a dozen locally, I decided to start ordering by the gross online. The first gross I got were crap. Half the blades snapped before I even got enough tension on them to start cutting.

3. Tried a different company. Got another gross of #2 Olsen spirals. Lasted a lot longer. Seemed like the teeth were wore off the blade. I never even finished that gross. They are still laying on a table in the shop because you could chuck piano wire in your saw and cut faster.

4. Found six dozen Dewalt #2 spirals on a clearance rack at a local hardware store. They cut like my "old" Olsens. I started using them as cushions while looking for a good source for blades.

5. Tried another online source for #2 Olsen spirals. Crap again.

6. After over $100 in Olsen #2 spirals, and a lot of kicking myself for ordering gross after gross, I started asking questions. I was told, supposedly, that Olsen started outsourcing production and that was why the quality went in the crapper. Flying Dutchmans were recommended.

7. Order gross (please don't get onto me yet, yes I know I should have learned my lesson by now about the grosses). Ordered gross of FD-#3spiral reverse blades from Scrollit.

8. I was amazed at how easily the FD-#3 spiral reverse blades cut through even 3/4 oak. My problem was that 1. They left the inside of cuts too rough and 2. They seemed to have like a 345 degree cutting radius. It seemed like they had a "flat" side to them with no teeth. They cut reat in all but one direction. When you made it too that spot, you have too turn the work. I was used to NOT having to turn my work on spirals. This was a source of aggrevation to me.

9. Got to thinking about #2/0 spirals. Order a half gross from Mike's Workshop. Now here I am.

 

 

Has anyone else had the same problems with FD #3 spirals (the "flat" spot)?

Does anyone know of a blade that cuts at least as good as my "old" #2 spiral olsens?

 

I'm not naive enough to think a blade will last forever. I would like to get 15 to twenty minutes from a blade at least though.

I'd like the blade to cut evenly on all sides. This was just something I got used to with Olsens.

I was perfectly happy with the kerf size of the #2 spirals from Olsen. So, I'd like some about that size.

If possible, I'd like the blades to be Flying Dutchman. I want to order from Mike's Workshop. I'd never gotten as quick shipping and the customer service I recieved from him.

 

 

I am desperate. My blade problems are quickly turning something I dearly love (scrolling) into an anxiety problem. A local friend suggested I was doing something wrong concerning the saw or tensioning. I don't believe that is the case. I can pick up the "cushion" blades (Dewalt) and they perform great. I don't believe that would be the case if I was doing something wrong. Besides, I do things just like I always have and I haven't always had these problems. The Dewalt blades are discontinued, so they aren't an option. Besides, I want a source for gross ordering.

 

So, any help would be appreciated. I would really like Mike's input on this one. I thought I may confuse him on the phone though. Also, I thought a public post on the topic may get me some more input on to what I might blow some more money on. If I had known the right blade to order from the beginning and spent as much cash as I have so far, I'd be set for blades for a year at least.

 

So now its in the hands of all the experts. Please help!

[Barry5180]

I don't know how much help I'll be on this, but this is what I've encountered.

 

I usually use the FD-2/0 spirals for portraits. I normally stack 4 pieces of 1/8-inch baltic birch together and can get about 20 minutes or more out of each blade, not counting stupidity on my part.

 

I have not tried the larger spirals, but would assume they perform similarly in the same wood. I have noticed that there does seem to be one spot on the spirals that does not cut as aggressively as the rest of the blade. I too would be interested in hearing from Mike as to what caused that issue. I've just gotten used to it so it is not as big of a concern for me, I'm just interested for knowledge sake.

 

Barry

[yost69]

I use mostly 2/0 FD spirals. Stack usually 2 pieces of 1/4 inch birch ply. They last awhile. I cant tell you how long they last in time as i dont count. but have never had a problem with them. I do use them in 3/4 wood and they last a good while also. I would say, if i had to guess, that my guess would be at least 30 minutes.

 

Ben

[greasemonkeyredneck]

I have noticed that there does seem to be one spot on the spirals that does not cut as aggressively as the rest of the blade. I too would be interested in hearing from Mike as to what caused that issue. I've just gotten used to it so it is not as big of a concern for me, I'm just interested for knowledge sake.

 

Barry

 

I may just have to get used to that, even though it is a nuisance. If it wasn't for that "one spot", the #3 FD spirals would be the answer to all my problems.

[britetomro]

I usually stack cut 4 to 5 1/8' Oak vaneer ply for my portrait cuttings. I also us a #2 spiral blade and find that I will get somewhere between 30 to 45 min. from each blade. At times I also experience issues with a blade which I have problems in cutting in one direction. The blade will tend to want to jump around and not follow the line. I will then recheck the tension to ensure that nothing has changed on my machine. If the problem continues, I will usually move onto a new blade. Can't explain this myself.

Ron

[Travis]

I don't use spirals a whole lot. I only use them when I'm doing portraits that has a lot of curvy lines. I never use them for solid woods, and certainly nothing larger than 1/2" (stacked). I usually use the #3 flat ended spiral when I do use them. I don't stack cut too much, but when I do I usually do 3 sheets of 1/8" Baltic Birch. I don't really time out how long a blade lasts since I cut a few holes here and a few there over a weekend. My projects don't tend to be complicated with a lot of piercing cuts, but I usually use only 1 or 2 blades per project.

 

One thing I'll throw out there for consideration, though. The thinner the blade, the quicker it will dull. With that said, your 2/0 should last a lot longer than 2 minutes. I found that spiral blades require a lot tighter tension than straight blades. I've never noticed a "blind spot" on the spirals, but I'll have to keep an eye out for it. But like I said, I don't use spirals that much to be an expert. Maybe 30% of the time I use spiral, 70% for flat.

 

I look forward to hearing what Mike has to say.

[FD Mike]

Oh Boy am I put on the spot.

I have not heard from other customers about the problem.

The new spiral is now my best selling spiral. Some who have used how ever a lot of spirals still like the regular spiral still.

Th NS is a lot easier to control, cut a little slower.

You need good tension, and good speed. With not enough speed you have a tendency to push too hard into the blade, you loose control over the blade. The

# 3 should be about the best number for cutting close to 1/2" thickness.

About the Olson blades. Olsen blades are made by the Hounstetter company in Germany. Olson never made their own blades. They are sold a lot in different stores mostly under the store name, like Delta, Dewalt. I don't know if I was of much help but i tried anyway.

 

Here is how the new spirals are made.

 

The regular spirals are made from regular flat blades. Before they are

hardened, they go through a machine to twist them. That machine looks like a

Roto router. Seen it and was very impressed.

The regular spiral are somewhat aggressive and have a mind of their own.

Hard to control, they like to go to the soft spots in the wood. However I

have to say, that the people who have used them for a long time and know how

to work with them, will stay with the regular spirals because they cut

faster.

The New Spirals are also made from regular flat blades. It is a compete new

design and this blade would not be good to use as a regular flat blade. This

new blade has teeth on the front as well on the back( this is patent).

Because of this, the teeth are smaller and less aggressive and much easier

to control. The user is the boss not the blade, like as with the regular

spirals.

I feel that the company came out with a new spiral what made it so much

easier to use by people who did not like the other spirals, like myself.

I hope I explained it OK

 

Mike

[greasemonkeyredneck]

Mike actually sent me two samples of the 2/0 new spirals. I personally didn't like them at all. They are just too slow cutting in my opinion. I'm used to regular spirals though. I have never had a control problem. I find the trick to controling spirals is to have them tight, TIGHT. From reading the posts though, I think I know the problem with the 2/0. Most have said they cut ply. I'm am just not a great fan of ply. I love using solid wood. To me, it makes a great difference the appearance inside the cuts, especially since I like doing portraits with usually an excess of 200 cuts. My favorite cutting so far has been one called Christ Ascending. It was a free pattern offered by Jeff Zaffino and had over 300 inside cuts. I cut it in one sitting of about 14 hours.

 

So, I will eventually use the 2/0 spirals. For now though, I think I'll stick with the #3 spirals for most of my cutting. I'll have to get used to the flat spot. I think I have that figured out too. I've been thinking about it all day. Think how a spiral is made. It's basically a flat blade twisted around and round. That will leave certain spots on the blade with no teeth on some parts of the outside. Then consider that the stroke of my Delta scrollsaw doesn't use the entire five inches of blade, only a little bit of it. Then it makes sense that if that particular spot is in the used area, then it will have a flat spot. This theory pans out in the fact that sometimes, there is no flat spot. It's just a random occurance. So, I think I can live with that. I love the fact of how aggressive the #3s are.

 

The other thing I learned today was about the Dewalts. They marketed as Dewalts, but made by Olsen. They were dropped from the Dewalt line because of quality control issues. That's what I was told and tend to believe it, because of the recent experiences I've had with Olsens.

 

So the verdict is, I will be ordering more blades from Mike. It'll be #3s though. Please tell me you have regular #3s though Mike. Before I knew about you, I ordered from Scrollit. I still have 8 dozen of them to use before I order again. All Scrollit offered though was #3 reverse spirals. I don't like the reverse, never have. I can't explain that one, I just like my regular spirals.

[sawtooth6]

Try the Pegas blades, They work well for me and are very agressive blades. Donnie

[FD Mike]

Greasemonkey,

Check on my site: http://mikesworkshop.com/blades.htm

ou find all the blades what I sell.

Mike