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Got them all done. Two coats of shellac for the finish. All have "temporary tattoos" on the back. One has a temp tat on the front and the other two are stickers. The logos were purchased from a local sport shop that is going out of business so they were 75% off! There are more details on the cutting in "Works in Progress"

I did some more due to the reaction to first one

Thought I would try a bowl with an epoxy stripe. It turned out okay. The Wobble Basket Bowl is a Steve Good pattern.

Spent a bit of time in the shop and then moved outside fir the shaping. One bowl will be given to the Knights of Columbus for a prize on their annual golf tournament, the other will be in the inventory

My wife said we need a mantel clock and found one on Pedro's Web site finescrollsaw.com. Contacted him and he send me a PDF file after I purchased. It all went very smoothly. Took it to my local UPS store and were able to print it on card stock using A6 paper format dimensions. 12" x 17" I wanted to do it in Bubinga but my wife wanted a lighter color, so I went with oak. I used 3.5 pieces of 5.5 x 48" 1/4" oak. I did modify the top from the original pattern so that the top was narrower than the piece below it. I also added a 1/8" shim between to bottom and next piece up. I also rounded the extention pieces on the base plate. Finish in Gloss Lacquer.

Travis had a great explanation and example. You generally purchase a pattern for personal use. You can make something for yourself. Selling things made from the pattern violates the copyright unless the creator grants additional usage such as selling things made from the pattern. Will you be caught violating the copyright.... probably not unless it is something like a NFL logo or Disney character.

I have a book of patterns that says you are not allowed to reproduce anything in the book for any reason and later tells you how to use a copy machine to reproduce the patterns.

I don’t think anybody is suggesting that if you make a frame you’re violating some sort of intellectual property. But what is being said, you can’t buy a pattern and think that you own the rights to do whatever you want with it. Your usage rights only fall within parameters of what the copyright holder allow. Pattens are made for crafters, so it’s expected that it’s for personal use. Some designers are ok with you making money with them at a craft show or online sales…others are not. But there are limitations on what you can do with their designs. I like making videos. But I can’t use music from Dolly Parton in my video and post it to YouTube, even though I own the CD. My rights to that music only extends to personal listening. But, boy, what if I REALLY want to use that music? Sure, Dolly’s people will work with me, but it will cost me a boat-load of money. But what if I don’t use her recording, and my band plays a cover of it instead? Still her music…your performance, but still her music. You need to license to use her music.

You are correct when you say " A copyright protects the the creator from someone stealing his work." My opinion is simply that Copyright applys to the "pattern" (in these discussions) that are available for sale from the originator or his/her agent. Wnen such patterns are reproduced and redistributed for sale, the copyright law is most difinitively being broken. I don't believe there is anyone participating in this discussion that actually feels otherwise. However, unless the image itself is copyrited/trademarked, like corporate Logos and Emblems, the resulting product/image produced from a/any pattern is not, again in my opinion, subject to copy protection and the seller of the pattern cannot ligitamately stipulate what the product rpoduced from said pattern can be used for. If myself and othes really believed this truly the extent of copyright protection, then most of us should just pull the plug on our saws as should embroiders, tatoo artist, any and all crafters and artist...... I could go on and on, but there is no point. I don't consider myself breaking any laws intentionally or even unintentionally. I sell my work and not somebody elses even when I use somebody elses pattern.

I couldn't have said that better... my understanding is any "original image" is copywritten automatically once you post it online.. I have over 3000 images online ( etsy, amazon listing photos also just photos used around the internet). I have times where I find my images on other sites.. I have one image that is actually on a clipart site that someone stole from etsy and put on their clipart site. I've had in the past other etsy sellers stealing my entire listing word for word, images too and selling at a lower cost.. so when people say they don't like their stuff stolen "nether do I".. My point was how does one "really" go about patrolling / enforcing the law on this.. I don't have time to do that sort of thing so I just wonder how does one of the designers make sure no more than X amount to be made without a commercial license.. I think some thought I was trying to justify stealing.. maybe I took it that way as the written word is no expression. I used to cut portraits, had about 50 of them of famous people. didn't know selling them was infringing. Some "other scroller" alerted me I should take them down before I get into trouble so I did. They sat in my inventory for about 10 years until I decided it was time to burn them and I did just that.. Enjoyed making them and I enjoyed destroying them.. as I love me a nice campfire..

Just to clarify a bit, I found the following concerning US copyright laws. As of January 1, 1978, under U.S. copyright law, a work is automatically protected by copyright when it is created. Specifically, “A work is created when it is “fixed” in a copy or phonorecord for the first time.” There does not seem to be an issue if you make something from a pattern in a book. However, if you make something from a pattern and then sell it, you may have problems depending on what the creator allows. It is like making a copy of a page in a book for your own use which is ok. However, if you make a bunch of copies to sell, you are potentially violating the copyright. I also did a search to try to understand the issue of altering a copyrighted image. Even if you do alter an image, it probably is still covered by copyright. The idea that if you alter an image it is ok to use seems to be an internet myth. Copyright laws vary depending on country. Since I only make things for myself, all of this makes little difference. However, if I made things to sell, then I would need to understand the law.

I've been reading this whole thread and came away totally confused. I regard every pattern that I have, whether a free one or a paid-for one" the exact same way. Once I have it, it's mine to use for whatever I want as long as I don't "re-sell" it. I make things from these patterns and if I sell my work and give credit to the pattern maker, I figure I've done my due diligence. If someone wants to sue me, good luck. I have nothing much.

I made the pattern for this from a photo that I found online. It took about 16 hours to cut. I chose this because my first "car" was a 1935 Ford pick-up.

names martin, been following you guys for a while now, and this must be just about the nicest forum i've ever been on. i've been scrolling, and burning and other crafty stuff for about six years now. all began when i got seriously ill and needed stuff to do to stop me going nuts. a few pictures of stuff i've done, recording work is something i'm not good at. most of my work is given away, much to my lasses distress. some of the patterns are from here, some jim blume, some steve good, others i forget, i'm an avid collector of images/patterns that hopefully i'll get around to doing. for my brothers wedding anniversaryon the mother in laws wallfor my lasses uncle, it's burnt on to a cheese boardanother burning of a friends dog

This is a start of a new thread so as to not high jack a different thread. This is not an attempt to "call out" any artist or publisher or demonize any one designer over another. Any mention by name is only to attempt to add clarity to the discussion. Two of the Patrick Spielman books that I own, "Artistic Scroll Saw Patterns and Projects" and "Scroll Saw Picture Frames" specifically state "no commercial use". Most of the others only state "all rights reserved". Sue May's website states " only ten items per pattern" and after twenty items a commercial license needs to be purchased. And I'm fine with that. What I am not fine with, is going to a seller ( Amazon ) and not being able to find a copyright notice; so I'm buying a product "blind" and do not know what the copyright is until I get it.

I was having problem with Inkscape and printing 11 x 17 ( I'm not alone ). The pattern for these is about 2/3 the original, and since I hate waste I'm using the pattern that I have. I had some 1/8 inch wood, so that's what I'm using. I don't know the species; blade FD Polar 2/0, pilot holes #71 drill bit ( .025 ), quarter for sca

This has been on my saw for months,, I would cut on it for a few minutes once in a while.. But I actually finished the cut this evening... This is Jim Blume's Kestrel , and I thank you @Jim Blume for the great patten... I love cutting pictures of bird...

This makes 4 Johnny portraits on my wall, but the way I see it, a man can never have too much Cash. I cut it in 1/4” red oak with a black stained oak backer. It is about 7 1/2” by 8 1/2” which was a mistake. I like the size of it but the pattern I made would be much better suited for a larger portrait. I had to leave out a lot of detail. Let me know if you’d like a copy of the pattern.

Did you make that pattern? It is top notch!

Great cut, love the background colour. Roly

very nice

So you bought a book just to "look" at the patterns and dream about actually making them,

Very well done! If you are still sending out copies, I would love to have one. Thanks

Beautiful job, Dave. How did you blend the paint on the chest. Did you use a spray gun or is that hand painted?

Great job, Tbow. I've seen "River" tables... That's the first "River" bowl I've seen. Neat idea.

Love it. I would love to have a copy of the pattern also.

Now that is some Scroll Saw talent!

you have plenty of time on youre hands.good job

Too cute. Nice job!

Sorry for the long post. There is a couple of things going on here: Can the pattern designer dictate usage rights? The OP's wished there was some sort of explanation of usage rights. I think that's a reasonable request. I wouldn't expect it to be on an Amazon listing, but it should be in a pattern book for sure. Etsy listings, or direct pattern sales, should have EULA (End User License Agreement) with their patterns. Listing it would be nice, but if it's not there, you should be able to ask and easily get an answer. I was thinking Fox Chapel had a thread on their website about what you can and can't do with their patterns in their books. But can a pattern designer dictate usage rights? Sure they can. If they are the copyright holder, they have the ability to control how they want their work being used. You see this with music every political season. A group uses a piece of music the artist doesn't want to be associated with. They have the right to say no. If a pattern designer says that it's for personal use only, it means you can make it for yourself or as a gift. But not with the intention to sell. Others allow you to sell the finished product (not the pattern itself), but they may limit how many you can do. This is mostly protection in case something becomes a runaway hit, or if something starts becoming manufactured, they have some sort of recourse. I think some of our big pattern designers had this happen to them. If their design hits that cord with the public, they want to benefit too. Why should they only make $10 on a pattern while the manufacturer is making a boatload of money? Look at the man and dog scroll saw pattern. I think I saw that floating around as a hand drawn pattern on some communities a long while back. It became super popular in the scrolling community. It got published in a magazine, and eventually turned into a book deal! That's amazing! Congratulations! They deserve that success. The idea of turning a pattern into a finished product by changing the medium will bypass the copyright is not true. Nor does altering the pattern. This is called derivative work and does not void the original copyright. It has to be a significant change where you cannot confuse the original with the new work. Many years ago, there was a very high profile pattern designer that got into trouble because he used copywritten photos to make his patterns. Fox Chapel I think also got into trouble for publishing them in their magazine. I'm not sure the end result of the lawsuit, I'm sure it was settled. But it was a pretty big deal at the time and shook up the scrolling community. I got an email a few weeks back asking if they can use one of my patterns for commercial use. First we had to find out what they meant by commercial. Is it being manufactured, or are they a crafter? Turns out they were a crafter. I basically said, you can't distribute the pattern, but you can make up to 1000 finished products to sell online, craft shows, etc. Because, honestly, if you're a crafter making over 1000 pieces of any one design, you're a manufacture now and we should come to a different agreement. The Custom Ornament Business Kit I make every year explains what you can and cannot do with the kit. It's intended for crafters. I expect that people want to make money from it. That's good (and honestly encouraged). But I don't want them to sell or give away my ornament business kit (that's how I keep the lights on at SSV)....just the stuff they make with it. Who monitors this and can it be enforced? The fact is, there is a copyright with terms of usage. If you don't own that copyright and go against usage terms, it can be enforced. Most of the time, it's just a cease and desist letter. Will you get caught? Hard to say. If you're online, you're very exposed. If you're at a craft show, depends on the craft show and the crowd it brings (if you have a booth at a Harley event without a license, I can almost guarantee you'll be shut down) Can they go further? Sure, but it's expensive and usually the letter is enough to put an end to it. If you really want to go up against it, you'll probably lose. Who monitors? Sometimes the artist. I've reported several people on ebay that were selling my patterns. I've had times where people scrape SSV and Google Images to bundle and sell our patterns. That's why the Pattern Library is now for members only. Sometimes it's friends of the original pattern designer. SSV had some patterns from a person who we thought was the original designer. A friend of the real designer pointed that out to me, and after some research and investigation, we found out they were stolen and removed them. There are companies that specifically go out to look for certain types of work. They basically work on behalf of companies, looking for infringements. They make their money by getting a percentage of settlements. A friend of mine ran a website where he was filed against several times. (His website was legit, though. It was a forum where people showed off homemade cornhole boards for personal use, often with sports team logos.) Likeness of celebrities can also fall under this. You always hear of a daycare that has Disney murals on the walls and get shut down. Harley people, like Wichman shared, got into trouble for repurposing their products. Puzzle makers who take calendars and turn them into jigsaw puzzles. The list goes on and on. Can they prove it? If you're in a craft show, they can look at your merchandise and tell. As simple photo will take care of that. If it's online, they have your listing and they can subpoena sales records. Even if you only sold through social media, there's records. A few closing thoughts: For patterns found on SSV, you'll have to ask the original pattern designer what you can do with them. Please respect their wishes. SSV doesn't own the copyrights to the patterns posted here. When pattern designer uploads a pattern, the designer is giving permission for SSV to host the pattern for members to use. If you want to make money with the design, you'll have to work that out with the original pattern designer. SSV isn't involved in that negotiation. Each artist has their own definition of what is acceptable for themselves. And that's OK. I've had my patterns stolen in the past and it's super disheartening. As a designer, it really makes you question why you do this and whether or not it's worth it. We've lost many amazing designers over the years because of this. We're all artists and craftspeople. Some of us are designers, some are scrollers, some of do both. Its a symbiotic relationship. We want to watch out for and respect each other. If we didn't have designers, us scrollers won't have anything to cut. Without scrollers, designers won't have anybody to bring their ideas to life. SSV is very conscious about copyrights. Please remember that I'm just a solo guy who runs SSV on the side for the scrolling community. I try hard to make this a friendly place with a ton of great information and resources. But we can't use SSV as a platform to share patterns that don't belong to us. A single letter from a cranky lawyer could potentially shut down the whole website. So I try to be diligent about protecting copyrighted works. SSV is a big place and I can't see it all. If you see something that doesn't belong, please flag it for review (the 3 dots under the upper right corner), and I will take a closer look. Here's a couple of other posts that may be interesting: Check out the copyright section in the Village University: And another post about Copyrights:

Your talent in creating the patterns and then cutting them is outstanding. I've not been one to follow "Lord of the Rings" but I am familiar. I'm waiting for someone to start making patterns of "Yellowstone."

a few more, done these the last or so, they are going to a raffle in support of a local autism charity. a steve good pattern another steve good pattern and my first attempt at compound cutting forget where i got this from

Hi everyone, just wanted to pop in to let everyone know I'm home from the hospital. I had back surgery last Friday so I'll be out of commision for a while. They say six weeks recovery. I start therapy tomorrow. Hope you get back to my saw soon. Thanks, Ralph.

Now is a great time to work on patterns, read those books you've always wanted to or to learn something new like how to play chess.

TLTR I have over 200 copyrighted items in my repertoire having been a musician for over 40 years! I also own a Trademark. IMO First thing one needs to identify is are they dealing with a copyright or a trademark! They are 2 different things and protected and monitored differently. Those that believe the original artwork is the copyright are correct. You can NOT take a photo from a photographer, make it a pattern and then enforce copyright on it (notice I say "enforce"). You will be able to "claim" copyright, but the photographer of the image will be the actual copyright owner if it were to go to court. We see this time and again with music, how changing or sampling a small piece is often a attempted copyright but is in fact an infringement on a copyright. Patterns, unless they are hand drawn from the artists imagination and do NOT resemble an image from which they were "copied" are copyrighted if they choose to do so. Simply posting on the internet does not guarantee one a copyright. Tangible medium can NOT be changed such as the ability to change the date on a file that is posted to the internet. IMO - It is not a question of "doing the honest" thing - that IMO is a bunch of hog wash. I'm going to assume "doing the honest thing" means one has never sped, ran a yellow light, jay walked, withheld funds from Taxes and any number of other "illegal" tasks etc. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I'm guilty, I admit it. I am NOT perfect. Often times you will see "artists" SAY something is copyrighted, when in actuality it is not because they have not gone through the actual process of copyrighting an item. They may believe as many, that by simply "posting" an item it is automatically copyrighted. Similar to how musicians will mail themselves a recording of their works and say "It's copyrighted" because it has a postmark. That has yet to hold up in court! It is a great way to protect yourself in the short run, but not if you intend to make money from your works. Copyrights are seldom enforced, and often with a good lawyer (if you can afford it) do not end in any penalty - take a well known photo company that purports to own EVERY photo on the internet! I've gotten cease and desists from them for years - they are full of hot air! Once my attorney sends them a request for proof of copyright and a cease and desist, they're done bothering me! Does any of this mean selling a product created from another product which is supposedly copyrighted guarantee a lawsuit? Nope, if you choose to ignore a copyright, you roll the dice - if you have the means to fight it, more power to you! Now Trademark, WOW that is quite another thing and is heavily monitored. HOWEVER, where it is monitored and by whom is interesting to note: Often times you will hear of cease and desists being forwarded when a trademarked item is used for commercial purposes in PUBLIC! By public I mean: the internet, on a website 3rd party or other (google can search photo's which is how many are found today), at a highly visible event (any sports game or sporting event etc.) or in many cases at small farmers markets/flea markets. Often the markets are not monitored directly, but rely on "whistle blowers". Once that occurs "release the Kraken" happens and often times will result in confiscation. Does any of this mean selling a product created from another product which is Trademarked guarantee a lawsuit? Nope, if you choose to ignore a Trademark, you roll the dice!

Glad the surgery went well. As others have said, do the work the therapists provide. It truly works. Just think of all the projects you can plan out while recovering!!

nice idea

I hope you heal quickly

Hoping you heal well Ralph and can get back to yourself soon, All the best Bob

Take good care of yourself Ralph, you'll soon be up and about. Sending very Best Wishes to you. x

Thank you all so, so much. The 'Village People' are absolutely brilliant !!! I have it now and off to my workshop.

Hope you are not in too much pain. 6 weeks will go in a flash. Marg

Do what the quacks say. take it slow and easy and you'll be back in no time. Get well soon

I'll be the devils advocate here. How good an artist are most of the pattern makers? I ask this because, following some peoples logic 99% of all patterns are actually copy-writ to somebody else, not the pattern maker. Unless the pattern maker dreams up the pattern, puts it down on paper, or takes an original photograph, they can not be the owner of the copy-write. Most find their pictures/ photos somewhere, then convert that said image into a pattern and I wonder how many have purchased or gained permission to do so? According to some, only those who are 100% invested or have purchased rights can make patterns, so if this is the case, I would suggest everybody go and chuck your collection in the bin, because somewhere, some how we are all breaking the law. Everybody has their own moral compass, live by yours.. I live with mine. live and let live.

A couple of things: I have followed Steve Good for most of the time he has been publishing and through the years he has stated he doesn't care if people are using his patterns to make money. He does make a soft request for donations on his posts, but doesn't hammer it. (And I have made donations and purchased his custom Christmas patterns) Second, back in the days when I was a working news photographer, I had a few of my images reprinted without permission. The maddening part is that in EVERY instance, I would have granted permission for a credit line and a tear sheet copy for my folio. (Long before internet, we actually kept photo books) So, I am a bit more careful about crossing the "fair use" line of copyright material. I not a lawyer, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, so I truly have no right or wrong side on this.

need to make two of these... I live out in the country, but the neighbors are close enough we can talk at the fences or yell at each other. I am often on my deck with binoculars, not to watch my neighbors but to look for Birds,deer and foxes that are sometimes in our lower fields. So, I need to make a pair of these to put on the fences between us..just to make them nervous..

Honestly shouldn't bother you if the laser / cnc guys are taking the patterns and running them on their machines.. Now... if you're the designer and "you" don't want laser / cnc machines making your designs then by all means enforce it somehow.. but good luck with that.. Kinda like Sue Meys stipulations of here patterns.. can only make and sell X amount before needing a commercial license... How would that be enforced? and proven that you sold only 1 or 1000? She is hoping for the honor system on this because does she have the time to search out peoples sales.. does she have the right to investigate ones sales to clarify? I don't know the answers to this but if shes worried about the money she could be loosing on the commercial license she'd probably be way farther ahead by just taking the investigation time / money.. to create something new and move on from it..

SO WHO IS GOING TO ENFORCE IT ?????? I have a few patterns out there and really do not care how scrollers use my patterns. I am flattered they like them enough to use them at all. .......even for profit. JAN

You can always reach out to the seller of Amazon and ask.. While I think that is wrong for them to not have this in the description you could mention that to them as it is important for your customer to know what they are getting.. There are a lot of sellers that do not understand this and overlook it thinking you should know, or whatever.. just oversite maybe.. but if you have concern ask.. Edit: maybe off topic but I find a lot of eBay and Amazon design sellers actually selling designs that are not their own... It's crazy how people just think they can use and do whatever they want on the internet.. If it's online they feel it's public domain..

This is a Grampa pattern I finished this weekend. Double stack Oak and Maple 1/4 ply with 1/4 pine ply backer. The Maple piece was stained with Minwax Colonial Pine as well as the Maple frame. The Oak piece was stained with Minwax Natural and the Oak frame was stained with Minwax Red Oak. Both were sprayed with 5 coats of clear gloss and lightly sanded between coats. I used Pegas 2/0 and 0 spiral blades. Approximate size is 11X14. It was a fun project and thanks to Grampa for the pattern.