Old Mill & Old Barn -Experiments with Spiral Blades and with Staining

[Frank Pellow]

I’ve learned enough by the responses to threads:

 

http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/topic/17403-how-do-you-saw-an-embedded-line-without-leaving-a-noticable-entry-hole/

 

and:

 

http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/topic/17138-spiral-blades-butchers-tool-or-experts-only/

 

to encourage me to attempt a complicated scene making use of 3/0 New Spiral Flying Dutchman blades.

 

I did try a spiral blade or two when I first purchased my scroll saw about 12 years ago, but found them very hard to control and very quickly gave up on them.

 

This time, I know more about such blades and how to use them and, so far, they are working out OK. I look upon the use of spiral blades as requiring a new set of techniques, kind of like the difference in techniques needed to operate a band saw and a table saw.

 

I chose the Old Mill pattern by ‘neptun’ for my experiment and I am cutting it out of a 6 millimetre thick white oak surfaced panel with a particle board core. So far, I have worked on it for about two hours and the project is about one quarter complete.

 

I am happy with the way things are going. I doubt that I will ever get to prefer them to “regular†blades but I expect to be able to recognize the places where spiral blades are the more appropriate tool.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[Scrappile]

Looking good.  Which spirals are you using on it?

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks Scrappile.  I mentioned the blades that I am using (3/0 New Spiral Flying Dutchman) in my post but I guess you missed that little detail.

[LarryEA]

Frank, you're doing good with them. Which spirals are you using?

I've yet to figure out how to cut a 90 degree corner with them.

[amazingkevin]

I’ve learned enough by the responses to threads:

 

http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/topic/17403-how-do-you-saw-an-embedded-line-without-leaving-a-noticable-entry-hole/

 

and:

 

http://www.scrollsawvillage.com/topic/17138-spiral-blades-butchers-tool-or-experts-only/

 

to encourage me to attempt a complicated scene making use of 3/0 New Spiral Flying Dutchman blades.

 

I did try a spiral blade or two when I first purchased my scroll saw about 12 years ago, but found them very hard to control and very quickly gave up on them.

 

This time, I know more about such blades and how to use them and, so far, they are working out OK. I look upon the use of spiral blades as requiring a new set of techniques, kind of like the difference in techniques needed to operate a band saw and a table saw.

 

I chose the Old Mill pattern by ‘neptun’ for my experiment and I am cutting it out of a 6 millimetre thick white oak surfaced panel with a particle board core. So far, I have worked on it for about two hours and the project is about one quarter complete.

 

I am happy with the way things are going. I doubt that I will ever get to prefer them to “regular†blades but I expect to be able to recognize the places where spiral blades are the more appropriate tool.

Your in the drivers seat with the infamous spirals! How about that! !Lookslike you had a picnic scrolling away,never say never.I hope to see you doing alot more with the spirals,your good with them and they give that one of a kind signature to each and every piece!

[Sorcier]

Heya Frank, the items does look very nice, what type of spirals are you using?

 

Also, I have always started at the center of a projects and worked my way outward, you are doing the opposite.  Do you not find that the project looses firmness as you go toward the center and bounces more?

 

 

Ward 

[Scrappile]

Sorry, Frank, looked back and it is staring me right in black and white.  Forgive this old fool.

[ubgoofy2003]

Frank, you chose the right thickness wood for someone starting out with spirals. It gives you more control of direction, since it doesn't cut as fast. If you would have chosen a 1/4 or 1/8 in. ply., it would cut much faster. I use the spirals as much as I can & sometimes for long straight cuts, I put in a flat. Looks like you have a great project there. Good scrolling to you.

[Frank Pellow]

ubgoofy2003, 6mm is just about the same as 1/4".  I am running my saw at about 60% of its top speed and pushing slowly, so the cutting is not too fast for me.

 

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Frank Pellow]

Sorcier, thanks for the tip about starting in the middle.  I should have thought of that.  Oh well, that's what I will do next time.

[Sparkey]

That is my favorite blade. I use the 99% of the time. I also start in the middle and work out.

[ike]

I tries them again this spring it wasn't any better than a couple fears ago so I sent the to Amazing Kevin.

[GrampaJim]

It looks like you are doing just fine.  Keep it up!

[bobscroll]

You are doing well Frank, As you say it's technique on a set piece of work that you are doing at that time!

Thank you for showing, Bob             

[rdatelle]

Frank, your braver than me. I'm still a little leery about using them. I tried a few different cuts but can't seem to get the hang of it yet. Maybe some day.

[Frank Pellow]

Update:

 

I've now worked on the piece for about five hours and am happy about the progress.  I have broken 5 blades and have only 7 left so that is a bit of a concern. 

 

Taking the warnings posted above about not finishing up cutting in the centre of the piece into account, I have cut around three edges and plan to end up in the bottom left.

 

LarryEA, about the 90 degree cuts:  The best thing about a scene like this is that there a few such angles.  I have found that, treating the blade as sort of a file and going very slowly, I can manage clean up an angle and make it appear to be 90 (or whatever) degrees..

Edited January 3, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[Young_Scroller]

looking really good frank! you really got the hang of those spirals fast!

[RangerJay]

There is a lot of joy in cutting patterns like this one - and you're doing a superb job!!

 

 But a warning!!!

 

.... cutting this kind of detail can become really addicting ......

 

A couple thoughts for you - not for this project - but maybe for a bit of future experimentation.  

 

On these kinds of larger, time consuming, and detailed kinds of project think about mixing your blades up a bit:

 

> leave your 2/0 blades and your 3/0 blades to the finer parts of the pattern where they are needed most.

 

> on the larger areas - (but not so large your eye is drawn to the edges) - try a #1 FD spiral with flat ends - this blade cuts very easily through most woods, is very comfortable to use, and lasts an incredibly long time - to break one is rare.

 

> on the really large areas (voids) where a viewers eye might be drawn to the cutting edge then use a flat blade that leaves a clean edge.

 

Just a couple thoughts for the future.

 

You're doing a great job - really looking forward to seeing the final finished work.

 

 

 

Jay

[Fab4]

Update:

 

I've now worked on the piece for about five hours and am happy about the progress.  I have broken 5 blades and have only 7 left so that is a bit of a concern. 

 

Taking the warnings posted above about not finishing up cutting in the centre of the piece into account, I have cut around three edges and plan to end up in the bottom left.

 

LarryEA, about the 90 degree cuts:  The best thing about a scene like this is that there a few such angles.  I have found that, treating the blade as sort of a file and going very slowly, I can manage clean up an angle and make it appear to be 90 (or whatever) degrees..

That's it Frank

You sir, have also made my "Insanity at it's best" list

It's not a bad thing though.

It's a personal list of mine that I keep for inspiration.

Thanks for sharing/explaining your work.

Question for you:

Without telling me what the words are,

How many times have you cursed in the last 5 happy hours 

Fab4

[Sparkey]

Looking good Frank. You might be trying to cut too fast. Slow down a little and see if the blades last longer. Looking at the pattern it looks like I should be able to cut it with two blades.

[heppnerguy]

Frank,

   We are in this one together. If you saw one of my earlier posts, you probably know that I am going to concentrate on spiral blades this year, also. I am not planning of converting to all spiral blades but I do want o be able to cut satisfactorily well with them, should I find a pattern, like the one you are working on, that cries for spiral blades. I will continue to fallow your cutting to see what happens to you and your choices of patterns and blades in the future.So far, this one is really coming along well.. keep up the great effort

 

Dick

heppnerguy 

[Frank Pellow]

Kevin(amazingkevin), Jim(GrampaJim), Larry(ubgooy2003), Bob(bobscroll), Ralph(rdatelle), ,William(ike), Joe(Young_Scroller), Jay(RangerJay), Paul(Fab4), Rusty(Sparkey), and Richard(heppnerguy):  I thank you all for responding to this thread and for your observations and advice.

 

Jay, thanks for the advice about mixing up blades.  Until starting the Old Mill project, the two  blades that I used for the majority of my work were:

 

          Olson Crown Tooth 2/0  20tpi

 

and

 

           Olson PGT double reverse tooth  9RG

 

I remain more comfortable using either of these than the Flying Dutchman 3/0 blade that I am using on the Old Mill and my reward for completing the Old Mill will to be working on a project where either or both of these is/are the main balde(s) used.

 

Paul, I don't swear (even under my breath) but, if I did, the were two instances that might have brought forth such an oath.  The first was when a new blade broke after it had been used for about 30 seconds.  The second was when I cut from one opening right into another.  I count myself lucky in that there have been only two such occurrences.

 

Rusty, I am already going very slowly (at about 60% of top speed) and am not pushing the work hard, so I don't think that's why the blades broke.  I think that it is more likely that the blades are breaking because I am bending them somewhat out of shape while attempting to insert them into holes from below the work.  I do thank your for your observation that you would expect to use only two blades on such a project.  I will ask other people to tell me how many 3/0 blades they would expect to use on this piece.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[Frank Pellow]

Sawing Complete:

 

See the rightmost photo below. The job ended up taking about seven and a half hours. I don’t know if this is slow, fast, or average. To educate me, I would appreciate hearing from others about how long they took to saw the same piece or even how long they expect it would take them. Even if you have not done such a piece but have the appropriate experience, I would like to hear your estimate of how long it should take.

 

I broke seven 3/0 blades during while working on this piece. Rusty told me that he would expect to complete such a piece using only two 3/0 blades. What are the experiences or estimates of blade usage/breakage by others?

 

Here are a few Observations:

• Even though with this type of blade it is possible to cut sideways and even backwards, I usually turned the work so that I was cutting towards myself. I probably cut towards myself about 90% of the time. Others claim an advantage of spiral blades is that they do not have to rotate the work, but I feel that I want to still rotate the work because I am more accurate when cutting towards myself.
•  
• I tried to do some of the piece (only about 10 holes) with a “regular†2/0 blade but found that blade ti be more difficult to use in the “fuzzy†type of hole that is predominant in this piece.
•  
• A very useful thing about this blade is the ability to use it as a file along the edges of a hole. During the course of this project, I got quite comfortable and skilled using the blade this way.

What’s next?

 

I’m going to mount this on a oak background leftmost photo below shows stains that I am trying out using the back to test things out. Right now, I like the stains on the building and the wheel but I think that the blue stain on the water (it is water, isn’t it?) is too bright.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Frank Pellow

[Fab4]

Sawing Complete:

 

See the rightmost photo below. The job ended up taking about seven and a half hours. I don’t know if this is slow, fast, or average. To educate me, I would appreciate hearing from others about how long they took to saw the same piece or even how long they expect it would take them. Even if you have not done such a piece but have the appropriate experience, I would like to hear your estimate of how long it should take.

 

I broke seven 3/0 blades during while working on this piece. Xxx told me that he would expect to complete such a piece using only two 3/0 blades. What are the experiences or estimates of blade usage/breakage by others?

 

Here are a few Observations:

• Even though with this type of blade it is possible to cut sideways and even backwards, I usually turned the work so that I was cutting towards myself. I probably cut towards myself about 90% of the time. Others claim an advantage of spiral blades is that they do not have to rotate the work, but I feel that I want to still rotate the work because I am more accurate when cutting towards myself.
•  
• I tried to do some of the piece (only about 10 holes) with a “regular†2/0 blade but found that blade ti be more difficult to use in the “fuzzy†type of hole that is predominant in this piece.
•  
• A very useful thing about this blade is the ability to use it as a file along the edges of a hole. During the course of this project, I got quite comfortable and skilled using the blade this way.

What’s next?

 

I’m going to mount this on a oak background leftmost photo below shows stains that I am trying out using the back. Right now, I like the stains on the building and the wall but I think that the blue stain on the water (it is water, isn’t it?) is too bright.

Hi Frank:

This is just me but I would lightly sand over the water and stain over it

Try it on a scrap piece to see if you like the outcome.

Well done, by the way

Fab4

[TripleJScroller]

Looks like you did a fine job.  My first time trying spirals I couldn't believe that anyone would choose to use them, but not one to give up I kept working with them and I now feel just as comfortable with them as I do regular blades.  Like others have said before they are a great tool in the right situations and a piece like the one you just finished is a perfect example.  I haven't cut this one, but I'd say 7 hrs is about right though.  As far as your breaking the blades, with the 3/0 blades its real easy to kink them while inserting them in the clamp and the slightest kink weakens them and causes early breakage.  I've broke more than my share...lol.   Once again great job and thanks for sharing.